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Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
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Besides money and perceived value loss, what is holding you back from EFI?

Want to hear if there's some myths out there to be dispelled.

When I owned lesser makes, I had to beef up EVERYTHING to make the engine, trans, and chassis take the power.

A 930 (or a late G50 Carrera 3.2 in my case) needs virtually nothing to withstand great power, yet is stifled by CIS.

Point is, we have the PERFECT platform/canvas to do what we please power wise, but a lot of folks retain the CIS.

In all due respect, CIS was a marvel and still is, but EFI allows nothing but limitless power and great driving capabilities.

So please help me understand. I love getting PM's/emails asking EFI questions for those wanting to convert BTW, helps me retain what I've learned.

Old 10-14-2014, 06:05 AM
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E-85 sippin drunk
 
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With the addition of ethanol in our unleaded gas (and the possibilty of the percentages rising in the future), I would say that converting would be a wise choice. Yes, for the purists, and the very high valued limited number cars, keeping the CIS would be a good thing. If it were me, and I had one of those cars, I wouls still convert to EFI, and retain the factory CIS stuff (pickled) on a shelf.
After seeing first hand how much flexability EFI offers, not to mention drivability, I would not run the CIS....

Just my .02
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Old 10-14-2014, 07:14 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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I can think of only one reason to go EFI and many reasons not to. The only way I would consider it is If you can perform the install and the tune yourself. If not you'd better have deep pockets and a lot of time. I hear so many nightmare stories. The worst, and this was a fellow I know personally, was after $30,000 three "expert" tuner shops and several years he still had a car that didn't fully function. He sold the car in frustration.
That did it for me.
Old 10-14-2014, 07:15 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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What are the reasons?
Old 10-14-2014, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
I can think of only one reason to go EFI and many reasons not to. The only way I would consider it is If you can perform the install and the tune yourself. If not you'd better have deep pockets and a lot of time. I hear so many nightmare stories. The worst, and this was a fellow I know personally, was after $30,000 three "expert" tuner shops and several years he still had a car that didn't fully function. He sold the car in frustration.
That did it for me.
+1

No computers/electronics/black boxes... leave it simple!
Old 10-14-2014, 07:22 AM
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I've decided that if i'm going to keep this car for any length of time it has to be converted to EFI. I think Rarlyl8 is right though, if you are not capable of doing it yourself its going to be a very expensive proposition. On the other hand, i'm pretty sure that i'll be able to get a very basic MS2 setup done for around $2k by doing the whole thing myself.
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'86 930 Guards Red - EFI MS3Pro, 80lb inj, 3.4, GT35R, Tial 46, Bosch 044, B&B Headers, 3.2 carrera manifold, Turbokraft Full bay IC
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Old 10-14-2014, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miguel Antonett View Post
+1

No computers/electronics/black boxes... leave it simple!
If you research the CIS system you will realize that is is FAR from simple. An EFI system is extremely simple mechanically.
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'86 930 Guards Red - EFI MS3Pro, 80lb inj, 3.4, GT35R, Tial 46, Bosch 044, B&B Headers, 3.2 carrera manifold, Turbokraft Full bay IC
'12 Gallardo LP-570-4 Performante
'01 996tt
Ducati 748R
Old 10-14-2014, 07:40 AM
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^^^ Very familiar with CIS and that's the main reason it stays in my car...

Converting to EFI will start messing with electronics and a new learning curve... If you want EFI get a car that came out of the box with it.
Old 10-14-2014, 07:46 AM
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beancounter
 
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My 911 race car has motec EFI and ITBs. Amazing combination. If I put EFI on the 930, its going to be with ITBs, so yeah - its going to be expensive.

I would not hesitate to convert to EFI if my CIS were having issues, but its not. CIS parts are hard to come by and expensive. Faced with the cost of repairing a CIS set up, EFI conversion makes economic sense and nets better performance and driveability as a bonus. My CIS runs great. If it ain't broke, I'm not "fixing" it.
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Old 10-14-2014, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miguel Antonett View Post
^^^ Very familiar with CIS and that's the main reason it stays in my car...

Converting to EFI will start messing with electronics and a new learning curve... If you want EFI get a car that came out of the box with it.
By that logic, if you wanted a car with more than 300hp you should have bought one that came out of the box with it.
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'86 930 Guards Red - EFI MS3Pro, 80lb inj, 3.4, GT35R, Tial 46, Bosch 044, B&B Headers, 3.2 carrera manifold, Turbokraft Full bay IC
'12 Gallardo LP-570-4 Performante
'01 996tt
Ducati 748R
Old 10-14-2014, 07:56 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
I've decided that if i'm going to keep this car for any length of time it has to be converted to EFI. I think Rarlyl8 is right though, if you are not capable of doing it yourself its going to be a very expensive proposition. On the other hand, i'm pretty sure that i'll be able to get a very basic MS2 setup done for around $2k by doing the whole thing myself.
I converted mine for $1500 complete.
Old 10-14-2014, 08:22 AM
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Having had cis and now efi I can see both sides of the coin. Cis if running correctly is pretty much reliable, I think cis becomes complicated when modifications are added without correctly choosing all of the components needed to run it safely. Efi can be pretty much a set it and forget it type of system but if one is not experienced and decides to do their own tune without much homework..one stroke of a key can give you headaches or worst.

Now with that said(and taking money out of the equation)..it's a decision I'm glad I did. If you have a stock car that runs really great then I would stick to cis. If you decide to go to efi then choosing the right components and tuner(if not doing it yourself) should yield you a set it and forget it system. Efi system can implement a lot of fail safe into your build that no cis can offer...plus your mpg's may go up...
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Old 10-14-2014, 08:34 AM
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If I had the money I'd be tempted to install EFI and a Carrera manifold. A friend has done it and the throttle response is instant like a normally aspirated EFI motor. The horsepower is then only limited by the rest of the set up.

I also like classic old school cars and mechanical gadgets that will never be built again as long as they are in good condition and working correctly.
My CIS is modified for more fuel flow and AFR adjustibility and that was around $1000 I spent on it 7-8 years ago so that increased it's value for me.
I know it well and as long as it's working good and smooth during cold start and everywhere else it's OK.

. . . but if I could afford to go all out and have Turbokraft design me a perfect working EFI conversion that I could install myself I'd probably do it and sell the CIS lump.
Old 10-14-2014, 08:57 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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$1500 EFI is a myth. Used parts or build-your-own like Megasquirt? I would think that way out of the realm of a typical experience. If not we are all ears.
Old 10-14-2014, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dos531 View Post
By that logic, if you wanted a car with more than 300hp you should have bought one that came out of the box with it.
Exactly!!!
Old 10-14-2014, 09:49 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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$1500 EFI is a myth. Used parts or build-your-own like Megasquirt? I would think that way out of the realm of a typical experience. If not we are all ears.
Pricing from memory:
1. MegaSquirt II - $444 (fully built using SMT components
2. Ford EDIS ignition complete - $100 used
3. Main EFI wiring harness (12ft) - $85
4. Ganged fuse block - $30
5. GM IAT sensor - $19
6. BMW TPS sensor and pigtail - $50 used
7. CHT sensor - free from Motronic setup
8. 6 EV-1 injector pigtails - $48
9. Going Super Fast crank trigger wheel, dizzy plug, and VR sensor - $200
10. Ford Focus VR sensor for crank trigger - $20
11. Crown Vic plug wires (Bosch) - $60
12. TunerStudio and MegaLogViewer - $70
13. Various wires and connectors - >$100

Off the top of my head, probably not leaving out much.
Old 10-14-2014, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
Pricing from memory:
1. MegaSquirt II - $444 (fully built using SMT components
2. Ford EDIS ignition complete - $100 used
3. Main EFI wiring harness (12ft) - $85
4. Ganged fuse block - $30
5. GM IAT sensor - $19
6. BMW TPS sensor and pigtail - $50 used
7. CHT sensor - free from Motronic setup
8. 6 EV-1 injector pigtails - $48
9. Going Super Fast crank trigger wheel, dizzy plug, and VR sensor - $200
10. Ford Focus VR sensor for crank trigger - $20
11. Crown Vic plug wires (Bosch) - $60
12. TunerStudio and MegaLogViewer - $70
13. Various wires and connectors - >$100

Off the top of my head, probably not leaving out much.
What'd you use for injector blocks, fuel rails, etc?
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'86 930 Guards Red - EFI MS3Pro, 80lb inj, 3.4, GT35R, Tial 46, Bosch 044, B&B Headers, 3.2 carrera manifold, Turbokraft Full bay IC
'12 Gallardo LP-570-4 Performante
'01 996tt
Ducati 748R
Old 10-14-2014, 10:37 AM
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^^^ that's exactly what I mean... and on and on and on... and sometimes it works, and sometimes it works great...
Old 10-14-2014, 10:43 AM
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Good question, Tippy.
I'm curious to know, too.
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:59 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Quote:


Quote de Tippy



Pricing from memory:

1. MegaSquirt II - $444 (fully built using SMT components

2. Ford EDIS ignition complete - $100 used

3. Main EFI wiring harness (12ft) - $85

4. Ganged fuse block - $30

5. GM IAT sensor - $19

6. BMW TPS sensor and pigtail - $50 used

7. CHT sensor - free from Motronic setup

8. 6 EV-1 injector pigtails - $48

9. Going Super Fast crank trigger wheel, dizzy plug, and VR sensor - $200

10. Ford Focus VR sensor for crank trigger - $20

11. Crown Vic plug wires (Bosch) - $60

12. TunerStudio and MegaLogViewer - $70

13. Various wires and connectors - >$100



Off the top of my head, probably not leaving out much.


What'd you use for injector blocks, fuel rails, etc?
It's a Carrera 3.2, so I had those components.

But my newest 80lb injectors were only $300 from Siemens.

Old 10-14-2014, 11:03 AM
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