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Rich Gas's Avatar
 
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Right in the middle of cleaning cam spray bars on passenger side. Took awhile to locate a hose with the correct diameter.... Need to disable fuel pump...then post some pictures.

Old 10-22-2014, 11:23 AM
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Right in the middle of cleaning cam spray bars on passenger side. Took awhile to locate a hose with the correct diameter.... Need to disable fuel pump...then post some pictures.
Cool! Can you please share the OD for the oil drain tubing?

Also what did you need to remove to get sufficient access?
Old 10-22-2014, 12:35 PM
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Just finished. Guessed at the OD and it made a mess. More so on the passenger side. I just had to remove air cleaner shroud, and the blower elbow. No turbo remember. I let it run probably 10 seconds on the passenger side, 5 seconds on the driver side. I thought the tube I had was a snug fit too, but I lost half a quart on the garage floor. I had only one or two small carbon bits, so I was pretty happy about that. This would be an easy thing to do every oil change for a non-turbo car. I feel better.
Old 10-22-2014, 01:55 PM
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Just finished. Guessed at the OD and it made a mess. More so on the passenger side. I just had to remove air cleaner shroud, and the blower elbow. No turbo remember. I let it run probably 10 seconds on the passenger side, 5 seconds on the driver side. I thought the tube I had was a snug fit too, but I lost half a quart on the garage floor. I had only one or two small carbon bits, so I was pretty happy about that. This would be an easy thing to do every oil change for a non-turbo car. I feel better.
Glad you didn't find anything. Still I've heard no explanation for where your carbon bits came from.

Did you open the rocker covers and:
- check the spray pattern
- use a pin to ensure the spray bars aren't blocked
Old 10-22-2014, 02:18 PM
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No, took the lazy route since nothing came out. I'm going to do a valve adjust here soon...I may go drive the crap out of it and change the oil real hot...that's how I got most of the crap during my last oil change. I've had a strange rumbling during the warm up period since I've had the car, i attribute it to different metals etc. but it runs perfect when up to temperature. Good luck
Old 10-22-2014, 02:47 PM
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Glad you didn't find anything. Still I've heard no explanation for where your carbon bits came from.
See Ronnies' response, #3:
As you have noted, those are definitely coke particles from oil cooking in the bearing cartridge.

The problem is that the coke buildup in the turbo bearings eventually comes loose and goes straight back into the crankcase as opposed to going back to the oil tank and through the stock oil filter (I probably butchered that and someone will surely call me on the carpet). Thus, the aftermarket filter being a good idea. Stick with synthetic oil and do away with oil coking in the hot turbo or do the filter thing.
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Old 10-22-2014, 06:23 PM
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See Ronnies' response, #3:
As you have noted, those are definitely coke particles from oil cooking in the bearing cartridge.

The problem is that the coke buildup in the turbo bearings eventually comes loose and goes straight back into the crankcase as opposed to going back to the oil tank and through the stock oil filter (I probably butchered that and someone will surely call me on the carpet). Thus, the aftermarket filter being a good idea. Stick with synthetic oil and do away with oil coking in the hot turbo or do the filter thing.
Remember that Rich's car has no turbo.

Means there is another mystery source for cooked oil.
Old 10-23-2014, 05:56 AM
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Some pics...



Old 10-23-2014, 11:21 AM
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Remember that Rich's car has no turbo.

Means there is another mystery source for cooked oil.
Well sheeit mahn....guess we missed that salient point. But hmmmmmm......we're not referring to Rich's NA car; this is about the original poster with his turbo 930.
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Last edited by mark houghton; 10-23-2014 at 07:01 PM..
Old 10-23-2014, 06:56 PM
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Rich "I've Got Bad" Gas, you might want to try an oil other than Brad Penn and see if you still have the problem. I say this because there have been a couple of guys on here that have used BP and found that it sludged and coked terribly. Of course, this was with turbo engines, but given what you found, it makes me wonder.

Hope you are doing well, bud!
Old 10-23-2014, 07:20 PM
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Hey Mark, this your drinking hour...you were talking to the OP.
Hey Ron, doing pretty good! How about you brother? Yeah, I'm thinking hard about switching because a lot of that stuff came out with my last oil change. The only thing different on my car is a sport cat with no shielding. I was thinking about fabricating some...I was checking the temps for a month with an IR gun...didn't seem bad at all. Definitely not turbo territory.
Old 10-23-2014, 08:58 PM
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Took off intercooler and airbox. to get access Both were filthy inside, I cleaned them out with mineral spirits. Spent the rest of the morning cleaning off the engine around the upper valve covers.

Ran oil out the spray pipe positioning bolts. Just clean oil on passenger side. Driver's side I got a few small pieces of particulate but nothing big enough to clog a spray hole. I had two sizes of tubing, some was 9.8mm o.d, other was 11mm. The 9.8 was a little too small, 11 was too large, tried to shave the 11 down but not enough. I wrapped 9.8mm with two turns of electrical tape and it was snug and didn't leak. One difference from descriptions, 10 seconds of cranking (after removing fuel pump relays) got me maybe 1/2 pint of oil. I did this several times on both sides, was expecting a lot more oil than that. Is something wrong there? Descriptions I read I was expecting a few quarts. I did notice that hose was stuck in too hard at first, got more oil after pulling it out a bit.

Undid valve covers and there's plenty of oil inside, and no sparkly sand. Opportunity to clean the valve covers, the outsides were grimy.

Pressed pins into spray holes. I used bunch of pins with different bends, held the pins with locking forceps. The underside spray holes were very difficult to reach, especially on the drivers side. For underside the pin needed a larger bend to match the diameter of the spray tube, then a little bend in the tip to reach into the spray hole, there is very little room under the spray pipe. All the holes felt clean. I ran oil out of spray pipe before and after using the needles on the spray holes and no particulate after so I don't think anything was clogging or broken free.

My left arm has a bunch of scratches because of the lack of space on driver's side. A little claustrophobic trying to work with your arm stuck in a painful position.

Used silicon edition for valve cover seals. Calibrated my arm with torque wrench before tightening the shiny new nylocks. The torque is just a little more than what's needed to screw on a new nylock. Pretty much stop when you perceive additional resistance. With this light pressure there are no leaks. Took a while to clean off the surfaces and left them dry.

Drove car for 30 minutes, then home and drained oil tank, ran the oil through a painters filter and oil has no debris.

So... I'm not seeing anything wrong. Glad to take the time to know my motor better. I'll check the filter next weekend but suspect it'll just be clean. I'm now sort of half wondering if some crispys from my heat exchangers might have fallen into my oil pan... I rememeber feeling granules inside the tank but maybe I was just tired?

Re-installing the air filter was the worst, I kept tightening stuff and finding I needed it loose for a hose or something. And that hose from oil tank! Hold airbox upside down thread it, then turn airbox over, attach the hoses on the backside, etc, etc. Took a lot of time to figure out the sequence. Tip: leave everything loose until everything else is installed and positioned (including ac pump AND belt).

Last edited by zakthor; 10-26-2014 at 09:30 PM.. Reason: For clarity change "oil tank" to "my oil pan"
Old 10-26-2014, 09:27 PM
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So, you gonna leave me hanging like that huh, imagined it? Good luck with that. Generally, what I do is clean my pan until I can eat off it...so maybe this is more common than we know, and we only hear about the few engines that fail at the rockers and cams from plugged spray bars. Good luck.

Ps. Nice write up Zakthor.

Last edited by Rich Gas; 10-27-2014 at 03:23 AM..
Old 10-27-2014, 03:21 AM
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So, you gonna leave me hanging like that huh, imagined it? Good luck with that. Generally, what I do is clean my pan until I can eat off it...so maybe this is more common than we know, and we only hear about the few engines that fail at the rockers and cams from plugged spray bars. Good luck.

Ps. Nice write up Zakthor.
Yeah... it was all a dream... worst possible story ending.

I guess from the start there were really only two possible endings: I find clogged bars and sparkly bits, or I don't.

I'm also thinking the engine must usually tolerate these coked bits.

I found some coked bits in my filter once in my first year of ownership and was using Kendall GT1 20w50. Haven't seen it since with the VR1 until after the track day. I know the car got hotter than normal at the track so can assume I didn't idle enough to cool down the turbo. No explanation for your bits though as you have no turbo to cook the oil.

Here's a photo of some of the oil from the spray bar, along with some delicious beer my friend brought over. Very delicious beer.



And some of the cleaning tool:

Old 10-27-2014, 06:52 AM
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There's 3 cam spray bar holes per cylinder and you can't see them all unless you look in there with a little angled mirror like dentists use.
I never saw them all until I had the cam towers off and I was cleaning them while rebuilding the top end of my motor last April.

Old 10-27-2014, 07:01 AM
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