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Brando
 
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I was waiting for this.

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1977 911s. it's cool
Old 10-29-2014, 08:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voitureltd View Post
Sorry guys .... was contacted by Pano. Copyright infringement was tossed about. Had to delete the content.

Sensitive aren't they? Well what do you know they actually pay attention to Pelican forums. Once they really dig in I think they will find our criticism of some of their analysis to be constructive. We are not a competitor to them, just are really focused on 930 and many can easily see where they are either biased, jaded, or not well informed. SO THERE Panos. A boulevard cruiser indeed?
Violating copyright law as well as this web forum’s rules—leaving our wonderful host here liable—and then calling Pano "sensitive" seems a bit, well...

I don't have any choice on matters like this, and have been watching this thread the whole time, actually. Over the weekend, a PCA member asked me how an article in the new issue could be posted for all to see for free, but I had already seen the post and flagged it, requesting moderators remove it.

As to the comments that unfolded, I saw some very fair criticism, some useful, constructive criticism, some bizarre interpretations, some wild accusations without evidence, a few unidentifiable folks attacking a respected Porsche expert and regular contributor to Sports Car Market, a little name-calling, a few conspiracy theories, and…some more totally level-headed posts. So it’s a forum thread, in other words. That’s cool.

I thought about responding to all of the individual points, good and bad, but decided to let this thread ride and learn what I could. The copyright infringement was another matter. I didn’t have a choice. Thanks for deleting it.

Pete

Last edited by stout; 10-30-2014 at 04:21 PM..
Old 10-30-2014, 04:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by copbait73 View Post
Yes, the four speed was very disliked then as now with stock engine configuration which is what any investment grade car has.
Thank you!

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Originally Posted by jjeffries View Post
(hopefully I have spelled Pete's last name properly)
Actually made me smile. I'm told the first Stouts here in the U.S. were really Stoudts, but had their name "adjusted" upon entry. So you might be more correct.

Other points taken, and—as with many of the others here—appreciated. Thanks!!

Last edited by stout; 10-30-2014 at 04:25 PM..
Old 10-30-2014, 04:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
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Ok with the copyright infringement reason. Everything else is just my 2 cents. Maybe I'm the "sensitive" one. On the trans issue I have a 4 speed, a 5spd RUF and 89 5 speed 930s and agree both of the 5spds are an improvement, however after driving whatever else from that time period, where's the beef? Sure it was't perfect for everyone and their driving requirements ( race bred cars generally aren't ) however the 930 was, and IS one of the all time great Porsche's and so much more than to be referred to as a boulevard cruiser .
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Last edited by voitureltd; 10-31-2014 at 07:52 AM..
Old 10-31-2014, 06:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by voitureltd View Post
Ok with the copyright infringement reason. Everything else is just my 2 cents. Maybe I'm the "sensitive" one. On the trans issue I have a 4 speed, a 5spd RUF and 89 5 speed 930s and agree both of the 5spds are an improvement, however after driving whatever else from that time period, where's the beef? Sure it was't perfect for everyone and their driving requirements ( race bred cars generally aren't ) however the 930 was, and IS one of the all time great Porsche's and so much more than to be referred to as a boulevard cruiser .
Other than prototype race cars, what did Porsche build that beats a turbo?
Old 10-31-2014, 08:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
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You could fault Porsche for not putting a 5-speed in the 930 sooner than 1989 since the 935 was past its racing heydey in the mid/late '80's. Original road-testers bashing the 4-speed is a myth in the '70's and early '80's as they understood that the 930 was used to homologate the 934 and 935. Porsche had lost Le Mans in 1974 due to a 5-speed gearbox used in the 2.1 Turbo Carrera RSR.

None of these 935's had 5-speed transmissions (all were homologated by 930 4-speed transmission)...

Porsche 935 Major Victories:

1976 FIA World Championship of Makes
1977 FIA World Championship of Makes
1977 Daytona 24 Hours
1977 German DRM Championship
1978 Daytona 24 Hours
1978 Sebring 12 Hours
1978 German DRM Championship
1979 Daytona 24 Hours
1979 Sebring 12 Hours
1979 Le Mans 24 Hours
1979 German DRM Championship
1980 Daytona 24 Hours
1980 Sebring 12 Hours
1981 Sebring 12 Hours
1982 Daytona 24 Hours
1982 Sebring 12 Hours

Last edited by rlane930; 10-31-2014 at 04:59 PM..
Old 10-31-2014, 04:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
 
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Very impressive record for any car especially that it was also built as a production street version. Ironic it's success record not even congratulated in the 12 page Panos ( informative ? ) article on the 930. Obviously one of the most successful cars ever made by anyone. Omission of important positive data just fuels the criticism. They seemed to have no problem with using ink for debatable complaints.
Many other vintage cars have value added from racing success so this information is important as many know little about the 930 project and its achievements. So interesting that Ferrari Chat had much to do with the 930 awakening. Welcome aboard Panorama however reluctant it seems.
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Last edited by voitureltd; 11-01-2014 at 10:53 AM..
Old 10-31-2014, 05:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
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A reluctant debutante attitude can be a formidable task to overcome. that is until they find out what they have been missing. Go for it you Porsche guys @ Panos.
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Last edited by voitureltd; 11-01-2014 at 10:52 AM..
Old 11-01-2014, 08:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlane930 View Post
You could fault Porsche for not putting a 5-speed in the 930 sooner than 1989 since the 935 was past its racing heydey in the mid/late '80's. Original road-testers bashing the 4-speed is a myth in the '70's and early '80's as they understood that the 930 was used to homologate the 934 and 935. Porsche had lost Le Mans in 1974 due to a 5-speed gearbox used in the 2.1 Turbo Carrera RSR.

None of these 935's had 5-speed transmissions (all were homologated by 930 4-speed transmission)...

Porsche 935 Major Victories:

1976 FIA World Championship of Makes
1977 FIA World Championship of Makes
1977 Daytona 24 Hours
1977 German DRM Championship
1978 Daytona 24 Hours
1978 Sebring 12 Hours
1978 German DRM Championship
1979 Daytona 24 Hours
1979 Sebring 12 Hours
1979 Le Mans 24 Hours
1979 German DRM Championship
1980 Daytona 24 Hours
1980 Sebring 12 Hours
1981 Sebring 12 Hours
1982 Daytona 24 Hours
1982 Sebring 12 Hours
Excellent information shared here, thanks.
Old 11-01-2014, 09:19 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
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We should try to put together a price guide on this thread, based on sales that we know of. With our knowledge and understanding of the market it should be possible, but remember guys, play fair!
Old 11-02-2014, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by tony101 View Post
We should try to put together a price guide on this thread, based on sales that we know of. With our knowledge and understanding of the market it should be possible, but remember guys, play fair!
Do it where it belongs in Marketplace Discussion.
Old 11-02-2014, 04:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tony101 View Post
We should try to put together a price guide on this thread, based on sales that we know of. With our knowledge and understanding of the market it should be possible, but remember guys, play fair!
Already done, just continue the notable recent sales thread discussion. It's already is a good indicator of current pricing to be considered and we already have the attention of Panos, Ferrari Chat, Sports Car Market letter, Hagerty & others. They most likely will continue reading Pelican and reference or consider the information from this thread in their price analysis when they publish their guides.
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Last edited by voitureltd; 11-03-2014 at 05:08 AM..
Old 11-02-2014, 09:25 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #32 (permalink)
 
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Glad to see the 930's are getting some love. I realize that you can't please every reader on the content of the article. Question for the writer and team is how we the readers can get a better idea on values on our 930. Can they provide some data or some sort of census on who valued what and their idea on conditions?
Happy to see the values going up, on the other side cost to insure and parts/service goes up.
Just hard to see folks thinking their car is "investment quality" and thinking its worth much much more than its fair market value. Kinda like a guy who owns early 911S that needs massive amount of work, but thinks it worth much more due to the "lottery winner" mentality.
Just my .02
Old 11-03-2014, 07:59 PM
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I love the four speed box... I even have one sitting in my garage just so I can walk by it and pet it every day.



I love the 930 with a four speed.
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Old 11-04-2014, 12:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #34 (permalink)
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Finally read it... not impressed... lonnnng with lots of back and forth... typical car article... but at least the 930 got some exposure with Pano/PCA - FWIW.

Now realistically, "a car is worth whatever a buyer pays for it". However, articles like this one might promote a market saturation bringing the price down. Stay tunned!
Old 11-04-2014, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Finally read it... not impressed... lonnnng with lots of back and forth... typical car article... but at least the 930 got some exposure with Pano/PCA - FWIW.



Now realistically, "a car is worth whatever a buyer pays for it". However, articles like this one might promote a market saturation bringing the price down. Stay tunned!
This is a nonissue. Not that many left. Maybe 17000 world wide. More importantly this is a world market not just a U.S. Market. The muscle car market got flooded with cars for two reasons. First too many muscle cars 100s of thousands made. Most importantly it was a much more localized market strictly stateside no world market and no European interest outside of Sweden.. I hear the girls are nice over there however.
Old 11-04-2014, 04:56 AM
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This is a nonissue. Not that many left. Maybe 17000 world wide. More importantly this is a world market not just a U.S. Market. The muscle car market got flooded with cars for two reasons. First too many muscle cars 100s of thousands made. Most importantly it was a much more localized market strictly stateside no world market and no European interest outside of Sweden.. I hear the girls are nice over there however.
Watch how you talk ... your making my muscle car mad!

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Old 11-04-2014, 06:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by VZ935 View Post
I love the four speed box... I even have one sitting in my garage just so I can walk by it and pet it every day.



I love the 930 with a four speed.
Hahahahaa, classic Van - love it.

I too REALLY dig the 4 lonnnnnnnnnnng geaaaaaaaaaars, and the one less shift. Matches the powerband quite nicely, and affords quite the unique driving experience in Automotivedom.

I just wish my synchro's weren't already annoyingly recalcitrant @ <60k ... yeah it sucks (<----- Eric Cartman voice). And that's w/ fresh Swepco @ 35k & 59k. Lame, very very lame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by voitureltd View Post
4spd? Once you learn how to drive it works just fine. Just have to get used to not having a granny 1st and doing hole shots etc. It seems they are not used to a model that was primarily engineered to handle up to 750HP and still make it street usable. Can't satisfy everyone.
^Eggzachry^ Tony... most especially that last gem of a tidbit. Ding!

Pete, I went back through all the responses here and don't see much of your observations within those at all... seemed a pretty level and straight dialogue to me honestly. I think maybe other more negative commentary about this exists within other treads outside of this one (Notable Recent Asking Prices thread, etc.).

Agreed tho, sure the CW issue is what it is - that was no surprise nor annoyance. Gotta do what ya gotta do, understood.

Good to hear from you on here, regardless. Hope you're well, and thanks for the 930 ink...
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Old 11-04-2014, 07:21 AM
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my poor ROW 84 is the lowest of the low in 930 land apparently. Im thinking of recycling it for scrap metal based on the valuations in that article.

Too bad it doesnt have thermal reactors, or a cat, or air injection to make it more valuable. I thought the 930 comunity was over the nonsensical ROW racisim!
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Old 11-04-2014, 10:43 AM
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my poor ROW 84 is the lowest of the low in 930 land apparently. Im thinking of recycling it for scrap metal based on the valuations in that article.

Too bad it doesnt have thermal reactors, or a cat, or air injection to make it more valuable. I thought the 930 comunity was over the nonsensical ROW racisim!
RoW 930s are much desired overseas. Less and less RoW 930s stateside.

Old 11-04-2014, 11:09 AM
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