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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
One often overlooked source of vac leaks the intake manifold bolts. They become loose with time and slowly start causing odd running issues. Easy to check, just put a small wrench on and see if the bolt can be hand tightened a few pounds. Go around to all of them as the one you miss is the one that is loose.

Good call.

One of the nuts on #4 was so loose that I turned it by hand. One of the #6 nuts turned 1/4 turn with a wrench; others on that side were ok. May have to remove the IC to get to the 1-3 bolts. Yet another weekend job.

Old 10-30-2014, 08:26 PM
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thats the issue i had with my car.
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
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Old 10-31-2014, 02:49 AM
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I'm familiar with the AAR on my 914 and how to get it working.

What are the failure mechanisms for the 930 AAR? Can these be repaired?
Old 10-31-2014, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
There are no slits in the piston as mentioned above.
Misspoke. It's a section of the piston with a smaller diameter.
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Paul B.
'91 964 Turbo
Port matched, SC cams, K27/K29 turbo, Roush Performance custom headers w/Tial MV-S dual wastegates, Rarlyl8 muffler, LWFW, GT2 clutch & PP, BL wur, factory RS shifter, RS mounts, FVD timing mod, Big Reds, - 210 lb
Old 10-31-2014, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
One often overlooked source of vac leaks the intake manifold bolts. They become loose with time and slowly start causing odd running issues. Easy to check, just put a small wrench on and see if the bolt can be hand tightened a few pounds. Go around to all of them as the one you miss is the one that is loose.
Those manifold nuts should be tightened to 18 ft lbs. There's one under left side the air flow meter housing that you probabaly won't see unless you remove the housing. There's 3 nuts holding the air flow meter housing on and 6 injector lines need to be undone to move it.
The plastic injector blocks often crack and can warp a little after a while. If they need replacing aluminum ones are better. You can get them from Turbokraft.
Check and make sure your AAR is getting 12 volts to the plug when the rear fuel pump is running.
Old 10-31-2014, 05:53 AM
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OK, I took off the IC and BOV to see the intake manifold bolts. All needed tightening and one on #1 was finger loose. I was able to get to the one under the FD by using a flashlight and mirror. Not much room there.

I could have done all this when I had these parts off when I changed plugs/wires.



The AAR is working; at 14V it draws about 0.5A and the valve closes. However, it still leaks a good amount of air. Even closed it doesn't seal very well. Can these be rebuilt?

Old 10-31-2014, 06:13 PM
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The AAR is designed to bypass some air, not a problem it is not air tight.
One of the symptoms of loose intake bolts is the air mixture screw loses its effectiveness. I don't recall if you listed that or not.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 10-31-2014, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
The AAR is designed to bypass some air, not a problem it is not air tight.
One of the symptoms of loose intake bolts is the air mixture screw loses its effectiveness. I don't recall if you listed that or not.
If you mean the screw to set the idle, then yes, I've adjusted this all the way in and the idle is still too high sometimes.

The AAR is closing so I will check the plug to see that I'm getting power.
Old 10-31-2014, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoke View Post
The AAR is working; at 14V it draws about 0.5A and the valve closes. However, it still leaks a good amount of air. Even closed it doesn't seal very well. Can these be rebuilt?
You can drill out the 4 rivets that hold it together. Then check and clean the internals and adjust the bimetalic spring position similar to how you adjust the WUR bimetalic spring position and then put it back together with 6mm allen head bolts and nylocks with flat washers or regular nuts with wavy washers.
I think there's an o ring that seals where the housing comes apart so make sure it's in good condition. A little Hondabond 4 on the mating surfaces would seal it up real good when putting it back together.
Old 10-31-2014, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by spoke View Post
If you mean the screw to set the idle, then yes, I've adjusted this all the way in and the idle is still too high sometimes.
I think you're adjusting the large idle speed air bypass screw with the spring under it? There's another smaller set screw with a lock nut on the throttle body linkage that adjusts how far the butterfly closes at idle speed. You may be able to adjust that so the butterfly closes a hair farther.
And I've seen some throttle butterflies with a hole drilled through them. The butterfly is brass so if you have one of those carefully solder up the hole if you can and that will drop the idle speed quite bit to where you should be able to adjust it with the air bypass screw.
Old 10-31-2014, 07:47 PM
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There is nothing wrong with your AAR. If it were sticking open you would have a high idle not a low one. If it doesn't open at all you should still be able to start and run the engine using your right foot to maintain a high idle. Not being able to do so eliminates the AAR as a suspect.
Once you get your IC put back on fire the engine you will see how it operates with the intake leaks reduced or eliminated. You could still have cracked injector blocks but finding loose bolts will make a difference. Finding the root of your cold start issue is a process of elimination as all of these things mentioned can contribute. Hopefully it is just one thing and not the degradation of multiple things that is causing the problem. I think the loose bolts are the culprit, but if not the engine will start/run easier which will further help isolate (the rest of) the problem.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 10-31-2014, 07:48 PM
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Started the car this morning; one crank; started right up; remained running at about 400RPM; increased to about 800RPM in one minute.

Checked voltage at AAR connector: 0V. OK there's an issue.

Schematic shows AAR voltage directly connected to WUR voltage supply. Could both be zero? Investigation time...
Old 11-01-2014, 03:53 AM
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Found why there was no voltage on the AAR.

The relay for fuel pump 2 had fallen out! I opened the front fuse panel and the relay was sitting on the bottom of the cover.

Replaced the relay and the AAR voltage was 12.75V.

The engine runs much smoother now. Can't take it for a drive today since it's raining.

Last edited by spoke; 11-01-2014 at 06:35 AM..
Old 11-01-2014, 05:05 AM
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Got the car out yesterday. Started right up, idled at about 900RPM. Then as I drove it the idle went down to zero as the AAR was working again. Ran very good except for the 0 RPM idle (stall).

Given that I adjusted the idle screw all the way in a month ago after changing plugs/wires/etc. and the idle as still around 1k, the relay must have fallen out much before that.

Readjusted the idle screw to about 800RPM. The car now starts right up, idles at about 1k until warm.

Thanks all for your help.
Old 11-02-2014, 07:39 AM
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So you had only one fuel pump, loose intake bolts and no AAR? It's a wonder the engine started at all. Glad it all worked out.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-02-2014, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
So you had only one fuel pump, loose intake bolts and no AAR? It's a wonder the engine started at all. Glad it all worked out.
Pretty amazing, huh?

The WUR was also unpowered as well since the WUR and AAR power both comes from fuel pump relay #2.

Had it out again tonight. Car sat outside in 45F temp and started right up and idled at 1100RPM. Ran as good as it ever has.
Old 11-02-2014, 05:23 PM
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Your entire CIS was unpowered as it all goes through that relay on a daisy chain. Your ambient temps must not be too cold yet to get it fired off with no assist. Must've been stinking rich after a minute if you could keep it running.

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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 11-02-2014, 07:29 PM
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