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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MYR S.C.
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now i am rich!!

first i out smarted myself again.
i put this check valve on the vacuum line to the retard to block boost. well i found out that it holds the vacuum which holds the retard. now i need to look back into the solenoid valve. i also noticed the retard vacuum line was very slow to build vacuum. (could someone have adjusted the small throttle plate screw you think?)

after fixing my air leak the AFR's (all referenced to cruise at 3k RPM) are down in the upper 11's and lower 12's. but the car runs like a scaled dog. great off boost acceleration. good idle. only problem is when i let off the gas the RPM's drop to nearly 0 then come back up. idle AFR is 13's, but when it drops it is in the 10's or 11's.

tried upping the system pressure to 6.7bar. (have 2 sets of gauges. one reads 6.1bar other reads 5.2bar). raised CP to 4.4bar and AFR's around 14 to upper 13's. runs like crap. NO power on accelerastion below boost. when accelerating off boost its like driving down a wash board dirt road.

now i have lowered the fuel head volume.
with the plate open about 10mm for 5 minutes, i dropped the volume from 5oz's to 4.5oz's. now i have the orginal washer back in pressure regulator and pressure at 6.1 and set CP to spec at 3.6bar. adjusted mixture leanertrying to get AFR's to lean out. cruise it 14 and idle is 14. runs a little better but still no power so i dropped CP to 3.3bar and richened mixture up and drives much better, but the idle drop is still there. i ran many tests and got very consistent numbers and very good balance.

i would leave it rich but the idle dropping is the big problem. i have to let the idle come down easy.

with it rich i pulled the plugs and surprisingly they looked pretty good. IE, not black.

the mixture still leans out as RPM's go from 2500 to 3k but not like before. now it goes from 13.5 to 14.

my cruise AFR before the air leak fix was in the mid to upper 15's. it ran good but then i guess i was dumping enough fuel in there to compensate. problem is i am still dumping a lot of fuel but it likes it.


my dist looks good. advance works, its clean. vacuum advance/retard both work but retard is not connected. i would like the idle timing a bit lower.
timing is a tad advanced right now. 27-28 degrees.


why SO rich?
i suspect
timing
fuel head
LM-2
ME


this is the euro head with 009 injectors.


what really sucks is everything i have learned about how the care reacts to different changes is ALL out the window. all that was corrupted by the air leaks.

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Old 11-12-2014, 03:43 AM
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AFR'S when accelerating is 17.2

AFR'S ON BOOST HIT 9.8
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 11-12-2014, 06:07 AM
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Brando
 
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Wow your way off still. Your washboard description sounds like it's very lean. Is that right? Mine does that at cruise and 15.5/1 or higher over 3krpms. So I've adjusted that out. I have a fresh Brian leask WUR sitting in a box but I wanted like you to figure out what my problems were. In wondering if my issues are fuel pump related. I use a single 044 in front. My car is a 911 not 930.
Your post has me wondering about leaks too but seriously I don't have any way for them to occur. I do but I've double/triple checked. The Brian leask WUR is awesome. Do you have one?
Old 11-12-2014, 08:11 AM
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i know me and you have had some of the same problems. like you i was certain i had fixed my air leaks, including removing the intake more than i want to think about. but i new since i was running in the 15's and even 16's depending on setting, i had to have an air leak. i had several. some came with the car, a few i made. the last one was my synapse DV. the vacuum ports that open it are leaking. itied them together so for now it is OK. as soon as i fixed that without touching anything my AFR dropped to 12s, maybe even 11's.
when i got the car the AFR at 3k was 16.3-5!! it drove fine, started fine, good power but i could feel a slight "miss" or "bump" at steady cruise.
i new something was up because it was nearly impossible to adjust the lean completely out. i tried very low CP's, as low as 2.8.

note, i do several tests. 2500 rpm and 3k rpm in 2nd and 3rd.

when i set teh mixture for 14, it is like a washboard when accelerating and no power so yes i think it is lean, but the AFR does not say that. boost power is fine.

after what i have been thru if someone tells me they are in the 15's and cant adjust it out without a doubt i would tell them they have an air leak.

if your FP can give you the volume you need out of the FD per the manual, i would not worry too much about it. plus i think your porblems would really show up under boost with hi fuel demands.
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88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:10 AM
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As a bystander...17.2 during acceleration is way lean. I've heard that you cannot get away with running a single 044 pump, you need the two of them to balance out the system.

Hopefully others with WAYYYY more experience will chime in to help you out.

Even with my Decel valve completely removed, my rpm's don't drop like you are saying, so sounds like you still have air leak issues.

Mark
Old 11-12-2014, 12:43 PM
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Brando
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by full quack View Post
I've heard that you cannot get away with running a single 044 pump, you need the two of them to balance out the system.




Mark
This may be true. But it delivers plenty at high rpm/.8 bar boost. I get 10.5-11/1 afr at 6krpm full throttle. But, it's at idle and cruise that I have issues. When I had the adjustable WUR pretty much all was sorted out though.
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Old 11-12-2014, 02:06 PM
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if you have good fuel on boost its not hurting your idle.
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Old 11-13-2014, 03:17 AM
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17.2 is below or off boost. i posted this hoping someone would know what i should be getting.
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Old 11-13-2014, 03:20 AM
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Do you still have the check valve installed?
Your acceleration AFR should be lower than about 14:1. Not sure what a 930 on cruise should be, like Brandon, I have a convert SC.
You are pig rich on boost.
I suspect you have a control pressure regulation issue, assuming the air leaks are OK.
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Old 11-14-2014, 07:17 PM
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WUR is new.
Check valve is out

Someone said something about a "7" stamped on the head if the fuel volume was bumped up. I have one at the bottom of the plate on the head. I am about to raise the volume back up but wanted to find out more about the 7
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Old 11-15-2014, 09:31 AM
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I think if you are getting in the 9's on boost you do not have a fuel volume problem. that is the hardest spot to deliver fuel and you are getting plenty of it there. I have had these problems myself and part of it was the calibration in the fuel head. my calibration issues were because IA modified the head years ago. I'm guessing your head is fairly stock though. so if I'm reading this correctly you lean out before the warm up regulator will do boost enrichment, and then as soon as you go to boost via the warm up regulator it goes real rich.

I would suggest you plot your AFRs on a graph vs boost pressure and rpm.

My car is a convert 3.0 SC, but principally the same. 930 WUR, but no vac retard.
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Old 11-16-2014, 03:15 PM
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yes. mid 17's below boost but waaaay too rich on boost.

well i richened the head back up saturday. what a freaking mess. hard to get injectors and lines in a good location this time. then lots of fuel leaks. then to amke things worse i forgot to close the vlave on one set of gauges that i leave one end disconnected and shot fuel ALL over the car. on to resutls.

i must say, my fuel balance is incredible. first test was with the sensor plate not open that far and for a min test i gor 2.3-2.4 oz's on all 6. then i found the cap i was using before to open it up more and got 4.3-4.4 on all 6.
i ended up with 4.6 in the end. the original setting before all this was maybe a tad over 5 oz's.
i do multiple tests and i am able to repeat the same results.
i did do a WOT and it was very good too. i dont suggest setting fuel flow or balance based on WOT. you can set them the same but then at low RPM they will be off. set them for low RPM then check WOT, they should be very close.

driving results:
i am not getting the leaning that i had before. AFR's from 2500-3k in both 2nd and 3rd are very close. AFR is mid 12's at cruise and at idle with CP at 3.4bar. (spec is3.65).
BELOW BOOST acceleration came down to mid 15's!!
NO bucking, good acceleration, sounds smooth and feels smooth.
then i upped the CP to 3.6bar.
i was impressed because idle and cruise followed each other as i expected.
idle is 13 and cruise is 13.
acceleration went up to low 16.2 or 3.

still pretty good acceleration. no one but me would notice it could be a tad better.
it really likes that mid 12 AFR.
idle sounds great, its smooth, no surging like what i would expect with a rich idle but i still have that drop to 0 if i lift the gas too fast.


here is how i did my test.


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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 11-17-2014, 05:08 AM
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