Pelican Parts Forums

Pelican Parts Forums (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/)
-   911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/)
-   -   "Barn find" 1986 911 turbo (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/848849-barn-find-1986-911-turbo.html)

reclino 07-18-2020 10:36 AM

Once I know what it would cost I can make an educated decision. The cost of doing it all by myself is potentially very high if something fails. To recover from a catastrophic failure would likely sideline this project for a very long time. I take pride in my work, but am not going to let that drive my decision making process here.

Bigtoe32067 07-18-2020 01:45 PM

Wow, just wow. It seems like with everything you’ve done so far splitting the case and replacing bearings would be easier than some of the other things you’ve already done.
I understand the worry that if something wasn’t done right it could cost a bunch to correct but following Wayne’s book and some tips on here, I wouldn’t think it’d be too difficult to attempt.

Whatever you decide please keep updating this thread. I’m thrilled you have your son helping especially since it looks like he’ll have his license before it’s finished and hopefully his payment for all his help is to get to test his 3D printed steering hub cover with a spin around the block.
My son is older now but what I wouldnt give for memories like you have with your little apprentice.

Good luck and thank you for sharing your story with us.
Tony

reclino 07-26-2020 08:14 AM

ARP rod bolts installed in rods. First trial of my new rod bolt vice, and ARP stretch gauge. I need a dedicated wrench for this.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595776438.jpg

reclino 07-27-2020 05:23 PM

Found a carbon fiber hood listed on Facebook the other day. Guy wouldn't ship and was in Ft Worth TX. Lucky I have a.few friends from work there. One picked it up for me, the other is doing a trip down and back In September so delivery will be free!!!
Let me know if anyone has a set of the Cibie hood mounted driving lights taking up space I am on the hunt for a reasonable priced set. I didn't want to drill my original hood, but as this one already has a few corners damaged it's not a concern. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595895777.jpg

reclino 08-13-2020 02:21 PM

Cylinder heads are back from spa treatment with Craig Garrett. This was a stock+ rebuild, new sodium cooled exhaust valves, new Eibach valve springs, new Colsibro valve guides, new titanium spring retainer's, .004" off each of the cylinder surfaces. They are better than new.
The vintage Porsche valve guide material choice of phosphor bronze was a mistake I was able to correct.
The titanium retainer's were not necessary, but will provide a small increase in RPM before the valves float.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597352815.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597353086.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597353194.jpghttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597353676.jpg

reclino 08-13-2020 02:32 PM

I also had Craig inspect and cut the tops of the cylinders. He took about .010" off the top of each to correct some pretty ugly pitting. He also checked my measurement for out of roumd and taper.
They measured very round and straight!!!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597353995.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597354311.jpg

reclino 08-13-2020 02:40 PM

I have located a.machine shop that's sort of local, and they have extensive experience building 911 air cooled race engines. I am going to split the case, clean everything, and take them the crank, rods, case, and rod bearings. They will magnaflux the crank and rods, and zyglo the cae. This is overkill but will verify there are no hidden issues with what I have. They will then measure everything, including fiting and measure rod and main bearings, but not perform final assembly. I will then get all my parts back and figure out how to build a clean room in the garage for final assembly.

reclino 08-13-2020 02:54 PM

Rings are back from Total Seal, I got the second ring cut to Napier profile. This greatly improves their ability to scrape oil off the cylinder walls.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597355570.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597355676.jpg

reclino 08-15-2020 11:42 AM

Once the engine is back together I am going to need a CIS system that's working properly. Let's take a look at the fuel distributor. Previous owner said he had it replaced with new, this was about probably 20 years or more ago, and it's been sitting for 15 years now? Initial inspection reveals that the control plunger is stuck.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597515501.jpg

Let's make a mark so we can get the clocking correct when going back together.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597515635.jpg

Set out a bunch of clean cups with numbers to keep track of all the parts.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597515805.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597516082.jpg

Actually getting the haves to separate was quite a bit of work. The inside has plenty of dead fuel varnish, and the control plunger was still stuck.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597516225.jpg

I tried soaking nthe control plunger assembly in solvent for about 24 hours. It was still stuck fast. I got out the brass punch and German pattern machinist hammer and carefully tapped it out.

Next up how to clean all this stuff? I tried a couple of different solvents, but ended up with 75% charcoal lighter fluid, and 25% yellow bottle dry gas (isopropyl alcohol) this mixture with each part in a small zip lock sandwich bag floating in the ultrasonic cleaner half full of hot water. The alcohol and lighter fluid emulsify soon after starting the ultrasound, and the alcohol just burns right through the fuel varnish. Takes about 15-20 minutes per piece. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597516932.jpg

356911930 08-15-2020 01:13 PM

Hi reclino,

Nice work on your rebuild!

I have a few questions about the build.

1. "New Colsibro valve guides", "the vintage Porsche valve guide material choice of phosphor bronze was a mistake I was able to correct". Can you explain the properties of the Calisbro valve guids that make them better than the original phosphor bronze; I have not heard of them.

2. "The titanium retainer's were not necessary, but will provide a small increase in RPM before the valves float." I had heard that the titanium valve spring retainers are not nearly as stiff or rigid as the steel retainers and require visual inspection as they may wear unexpectedly and are better for a race car application where more frequent teardowns are expected.

Thanks,

Rahl

reclino 08-15-2020 01:43 PM

Colsibro is a copper alloy, hardened by 2% Nickel and 0.5% silicon. It has a much higher heat transfer than phosphor bronze, and is also stronger /tougher / more wear resistant at high temps. The sodium cooled exhaust valves send heat up to the guide, this causes the phosphor bronze to soften and wear out by 68k miles.
https://www.azom.com/equipment-details.aspx?EquipID=5373#:~:text=Colsibro%C2%AE%2 0is%20a%20high,physical%20advantages%20of%20copper %20itself.

reclino 08-15-2020 01:47 PM

The titanium retainer's are grade 5 titanium, PVD coated with a hard wear resistant carbon nitride. The titanium is stronger and lighter than the cast steel stock parts. Titanium is indeed very notch sensitive to cracks. The hard coating should protect the titanium from being scratched or scuffed by the valve springs. There is a risk of them cracking, but there is also a risk of the stock steel parts cracking.
I bought both these parts from Chris Flavell about 4 years ago. He had developed and used these retainer's in many race engines and noticed no scuffing or wear upon teardown of multiple engines. He is unfortunately no longer alive.

flightlead404 08-15-2020 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reclino (Post 10986604)
\
Next up how to clean all this stuff?

Try Hoppes. I use it to clean the fuel injectors on my plane. Works wonders on all sorts of fuel varnish and residue and also smells great!

reclino 08-15-2020 07:08 PM

Parts clean and reassembled with a small amount of silicone grease.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597542578.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597542667.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597542742.jpg

Verify clocking mark made before taken to bits.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597542952.jpg

Insert little alignment pins, and put disks and springs back in place.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597543101.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597543414.jpg

Lower the cover in place, wiggle a bit, check alignment, wiggle a bit more

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597543593.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597543677.jpg

Torque back at 7.4 ft lbs. Reinstall plunger, enjoy the squishy sound as it bounces up and down with spring pressure.!!!

gsxrken 08-16-2020 08:16 AM

Nice clean attention to detail throughout here. Good work.
When you’re all done you’re going to need another project for your son!

reclino 08-25-2020 11:55 AM

I have been cleaning the garage furiously to prepare to build an engine. No really interesting pictures to show for it.
Have been consulting Peter Dawe about my motor build, he recommended SuperTech head studs, so just ordered a set of those, as well as new ARP rod bolts, and ARP flywheel bolts.
Now shopping for a RUF 5 speed SACHS motorsports clutch PN 88 3082 999 594. And 88 1861 999 615. These seem crazy expensive....... Anyone know a way to shave some $ off this item?; Feels like I am just setting money on fire 🔥. Wish I had a friend on the inside in Germany.

Dominik 930 08-25-2020 08:47 PM

I'm happy to help. Ruf parts are not cheaper here either. But I would love to help you. Greetings Dominik
andrahase@arcor.de

TurboKraft 08-26-2020 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reclino (Post 10999959)
Now shopping for a RUF 5 speed SACHS motorsports clutch PN 88 3082 999 594. And 88 1861 999 615. These seem crazy expensive....... Anyone know a way to shave some $ off this item?; Feels like I am just setting money on fire 🔥. Wish I had a friend on the inside in Germany.

The -594 aka "Ruf clutch" isn't cheap, but you'll save a lot of money by not specifying the -615 disc because it's the wrong one. You need only the basic early 930 disc, -331 part number in Sachs' catalog.

reclino 08-26-2020 07:11 PM

Ok, that's just about the opposite I read from this post.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/1037103-strange-change-my-clutch-behaviour-iirc-kep1-2-kevlar-disk.html
I have emailed Brian Day about this and according to him the only correct combination is the 594 with the 615 disk.
I would consider you both more experienced than I am.
I do not want to cut corners on this build, don't want to waste money either
My goals for this car are relatively tame compared to many. But I have a RUF .9 bar spring as well as a few 931 springs and the 935 boost control regulator, so my plan was to build the car with the 931 spring in the wastegate first, break it in and then adjust boost up to stock levels as I gain a bit of experience with the car. Later I may go to .9 bar if everything seems perfect.
Yes I know changing boost will change the fueling and tune, I have a wide band and would adjust for each boost level. Not going to just spin the wheel of death and let it rip.
David
Performance Enginerding
Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboKraft (Post 11001920)
The -594 aka "Ruf clutch" isn't cheap, but you'll save a lot of money by not specifying the -615 disc because it's the wrong one. You need only the basic early 930 disc, -331 part number in Sachs' catalog.


TurboKraft 08-26-2020 09:40 PM

Pressure plate + disc combinations
 
Okay, once more for the record:

Using all Sachs-manufactured parts
88 3082 999 594 = "Ruf" pressure plate
+
930 116 014 02 = 1976-77 930 clutch disc, organic with spring hub, ~10.0mm thick
+
930 116 081 11 = 930 release bearing


IF you're making over 500whp or simply want the strongest pressure plate Sachs makes:
88 3083 999 574 = 934 pressure plate + 930 release bearing (included)
+
88 1861 999 615 = 934 street disc, organic with spring hub, ~8.5mm thick


To fit into a 1978-88 long bell housing transmission, add:
* aluminum ring gear spacer
* stainless release bearing extension


Which ring gear to use? The one that matches your bell housing, i.e.
1976-77 short bell housing = 1976-77 starter ring gear
1978-88 short bell housing = 1977-88 starter ring gear



and maybe a moderator can put a sticky on this or something, help stop the misinformation


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:26 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website


DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.