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Porsche Crest Need Advice on Engine Upgrades for a 930 Turbo

This is likely one of those questions destined to start a huge "food fight", but here we go.

I have a 1982 Porsche 930 Turbo. Checked the VIN and it is a genuine 930, Euro Model. I unfortunately took it to a local show for a “tune up” and when they told me there was low compression in 2 cylinders and that they needed to take the engine out to check it, I stupidly agreed (I’m a service disabled 31 year army infantry veteran… no mechanic )

After over a year of “we’re looking for parts” I got frustrated and retrieved the car (after the guy gouged me several grand for “work” and “storage” because he was no longer going to work on the car.

It is now safe with a real engine rebuild guy. So here is my basic question……

Since it is already torn apart, what would be the best engine upgrades to do (internal and external)?

Someone recommended a SS timing chain, and when I checked with some of the on-line parts places a place called “FABSPEED” recommended upgrading the turbo (K27), intercooler, intake and exhaust system.

Porsche 911 Turbo 930 Sport Performance Package - Fabspeed Motorsport

Porsche 911 Turbo 930 K27 Turbocharger Upgrade - Fabspeed Motorsport

Porsche 911 Turbo 930 Long-Neck Intercooler - Fabspeed Motorsport

I’m also interested in advice on where to get the seals, rings, and other stuff the guy may need to rebuild it.

The car itself is a little “different”. It has the air intakes on the rear fenders and the running boards that were all on the 930s, but instead of a “slant nose” that I am told was normal with the 930, it has the regular front. I am checking with Porsche now to see if it was special ordered that way, as it looks to the body guys like it was made that way sine it is a genuine 930 by VIN.

Thanks for your patience with this “newbie”…. I’m told the car would probably have some value when fixed up, but just trying to figure out what the best investment for my disability checks are before I put the wife into sticker shock.

Old 03-25-2015, 08:00 AM
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You'll hear a lot around here about the "Slippery Slope" or about "While You're in There" and, as you surmised, opinions will vary.

So much depends on your budget. If you're having someone else do the work, plan on big $$$ to have this thing completed. Four a full, split-the-case rebuild, figure 4-6 grand on machine work alone (and that's without going whole-hog). Parts will run anywhere from a few grand if you're keeping things very tight, all the way to the stratosphere. Then of course, there's the cost of having your mechanic assemble everything, a number I can speak to.

If you're not in a rush, hang out here in the 930 forum for awhile, ask questions, become familiar with 930 vernacular and see what other guys have done. Many of us have jumped in quickly, buying parts we though were cool, then later went in a different direction.

There's virtually nothing about your car that someone here isn't an expert on, and your now-930-brethren will be happy to help.

All that said, here's a brief list of things you might look into (gotta head out to lunch or I'd think about it a bit more):

Upgraded Turbo
Headers
Non (or at least much less) restrictive muffler
New Camshafts (opinions vary but SC and 964 are most popular)
Upgraded head and rod bolts (that opinion thing again here)
Adjustable WUR (Warm up Regulator) unless you go with the next item ...
Electronic Fuel Injection
Upgraded Intercooler


There's more but I really have to run.

Oh, and there's an unwritten rule here; if you don't post pics your car doesn't exist.
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Last edited by nkowi; 03-25-2015 at 02:59 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 03-25-2015, 09:30 AM
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Thanks for the Feedback

Thanks for all the feedback. I need all the help I can get.

I'm new tot he forum so have not "broken the code" on how to post photos (so my car can exist) but I will try again here...
Old 03-25-2015, 10:15 AM
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Hi Agentx...good looking 930

Reading through your story....can't go wrong with exhaust turbo and IC upgrade as you mentioned as a start.

Great advice from nkowi on where this road can lead.

Apologize if im reading your note too literally ...but.....my biggest concern is if your real engine builder doent know what he needs for "seals, rings..other stuff" for a 930 this creates a big risk that you might want to reconsider your path forward
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Old 03-25-2015, 11:03 AM
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Nice looking car and especially nice color. Color code is on a small ID plate inside driver door. Interested to know if it is a color to sample. If it is the same # as in my photo it is a very rare color. I thought I had the only one. It is Rennrot #867 ( Skodia racing red). Good luck with the rebuild, I'd say the previous posts are very informative. Lots of real experts on this forum that have been down your road before and know where the pot holes are. Get someone who has successfully done it before or someone who can take the advice from those who have.
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Last edited by voitureltd; 03-25-2015 at 11:18 AM..
Old 03-25-2015, 11:13 AM
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Tony, his appears metallic while yours looks single stage - both are sexxxxxaaaay 8-).

To the OP... gorgeous car, and congrats. Definitely determine if your engine builder is "the right guy".

Side strakes and boxed rockers were not standard and could be either special wishes (slantnose delete option, per se) or could have been added aftermarket.

Ordering a Certificate of Authenticity from PNA 'may' answer that, and there are other 'tells' to be found in the side strakes - post detailed pics and descriptions and there are those here who can sometimes determine.

Should you seek quick easy bolt on's, coughShamelessPlugcough... I'm selling a really nice IC: FS: Garretson 930 shortneck intercooler Will save you a BOATLOAD over new...
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Last edited by krasuskyp; 03-25-2015 at 11:50 AM..
Old 03-25-2015, 11:48 AM
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WOW... thanks for all the great info! It all helps and I am sure I will need more when I start down this road... My limitation is what I can afford out of my military retirement and associated military disability, but this is the car I always wanted and the wife said after surviving 31 years on active duty being "shot and missed -defecated on and hit" I could buy one... the this turd screwed it up..... The engine is just one problem. He let it sit outside for a year in the sun so I now have to find a blank for the dash to get it recovered and replaced since mine split; re-do the seats, etc..... Guy's lucky.... :-0

I'll check the color code and post it. Also just ordered the Porsche Cert of authenticity and will report out on that when I get it.

The Mechanic who is looking at the engine for me is a certified BMW, Ferrari Master Mechanic. Although he's worked on Porsche before it is not a big line for him since there are not a lot iin the area and most of the Rich Folk take theirs to the two big dealers in town... After them charging me $250 for an oil change it's too rich for my blood!

I'm getting the engine over to him tonight and will begin putting up what he says are the parts he needs.

He actually recommended I find a forum to get on saying that he could give me a list of parts and buy them or put them in, but with a 930 he's found that there are better ways to go than just buying the basic replacement (turbo, inter-cooler, etc.) and that ":the real pros" are the people who live and breath this on the forums... sounded like good advice :-)

More to follow as the saga continues.
Old 03-25-2015, 02:02 PM
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Are you committed to this mechanic? Before going down that road again, perhaps ask the Pelican brain trust for recommendations in your area. You can also contact your local PCA chapter for recommendations.
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:24 PM
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. . . defecated on and hit"
That's Paul's idea of Heaven right thar!!!
Old 03-25-2015, 02:26 PM
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Great looking color…very nice. I'd be more comfortable with and air cooled P-car independent. The advice to seek guidance from a local PCA chapter is sound. At least it gives you options.

The second to last time my engine was out, I had a lightweight pressure plate and clutch assembly installed. It made a huge difference in the way the engine rev'd up (and down). Plus it takes some rotating mass out of the equation which I only assume decreases stress on engine internals. I could be kidding myself but I going with it.…

Thanks for serving our country the way you did.

Will
Old 03-25-2015, 03:29 PM
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Nice! Never have seen that color before.
My entire family are veterans from Korea through 911/Gulf War. We understand what it takes.

The mods you do need to reflect a clear vision of your goal. This stuff ain't cheap when done correctly so do it once and do it right. Most if not all engine mods are easily reversible as these engines really respond to bolt-ons. The typical formula of headers, turbo, intercooler, muffler can double the power and greatly enhance the drivability and enjoyment. Several options for each power adder which is where your homework comes in. The search engine is your friend and these guys ain't shy about giving an honest opinion, ha!
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Old 03-25-2015, 05:38 PM
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Welcome to the forum. We're here to help spend your money Definitely dig you car and the color. In the first pic it looks purplish, and in the second it looks more burgundy.

You say the engine is "apart" or "out of the car" but its not clear how many pieces its in. When you mention timing chains, that sounds like perhaps the case is already split. Either way, if you really want to learn for yourself what the options are and what can/should be done, I recommend that you get the book: How to Rebuild and Modify Your Porsche 911 Engine by Wayne Dempsey. He's the owner of Pelican Parts, and naturally you can order the book from this website. The book is a fantastic resource for you, even if you're paying someone to do the work. There are a lot of things you can do to "upgrade" The bolt on stuff people have mentioned are common. When the engine is apart you have more options. As people have mentioned a properly done full stock rebuild from the crank out is an expensive proposition, even if most of your parts can be reused or reconditioned. Be prepared and have a budget. Not sure if your Ferrari guy does machine work in house. Good chance you'll want to find a machine shop that has experience working on the old air-cooled stuff.
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Old 03-25-2015, 05:53 PM
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First… Many thanks for your 31 years of service!!
Second...Beautiful car!!
Third join PCA
Fourth.. why the upgrades?
Fifth.. People will spend your money here quick..Btw everyone here has great insight, intentions and lots of knowledge..but back to fourth question Why

Is it that you want to beat people off the line, bragging to people at car shows about all the money you spent or are you thinking about doing Drivers education. Highly recommend you take a High Performance Drivers Clinic through the local PCA. VIR is not that far from you… Summit Point is bit of a drive Both are GREAT TRACKs..Not that expensive for a 1 day course and you will be amazed at what these cars can already do. You are only touching a mere percent of there capability.

If you start changing out an already fairly well balanced machine before you maxed it out. Then you will go down a very deep slope and never really get the full benefit of what you have spent unless you race it. These cars are already freakn fast!! and handle really well. A ***** to learn but hell on wheels.

Yes you have turbo lag. Hence the term widow maker. ;-) if it is not pointing straight when the turbo kicks in YOU WILL SPIN...but where are you going to be to unleash the beast?.

Performing myself an engine rebuild and I am keeping it stock. I have raced it for 5 years and now I am just starting to get it back in running order. I blew 2 pistons and a cylinder. Split the case and replacing just about everything.

Just a side note typically you do not get a return on aftermarket add-ons. If you decide to sell

Knowing that you are on a fixed income enjoying life after many years of service. My 2 cents say KISS (keep it simple stupid). Just spend your money on a good set of tires, brakes and get the car in running order.

If you want to do some stuff get the book 101 Projects for your Porsche 911 and start buying some tools. People here plus Pelican Technical articles will walk you through some of the basics of wrenching...Why pay for that 200+ oil change when you can do it yourself and then brag at the car gatherings that you are doing the work..

If you are now really interested in doing more, get the Porsche 911sc Service manual 78-83. This will provide you enough basics to do more jobs. You can find people who do have the service manuals for the 930 and they may provide.

If you are still dead set on upgrading...Then read the book Porsche 911 Performance Handbook by anderson. This will provide you with enough information to arm yourself on what you are going to do and not be overtaken by the local Indy shops. Plus search this forum...Lots of information.

and then, once you have decided to start tackling bigger issues...How to rebuild and modify Porsche 911 engines by Dempsey.

This may all sound daunting but quite frankly with patience, a bit of research, this forum as well as others…Not that hard..

Wish you the best of luck in your travels and welcome to the madness!!
Cheers
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Old 03-25-2015, 06:03 PM
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Vasscott, you left out two "why" options that applies to almost everyone on this forum who modifies these cars:

1) it is fun to make modifications

2) the car is much more fun to drive when its power and power delivery are improved upon.


I don't think a single person here actually gives two shats about financial an/or "my car's Richard is bigger than yours" bragging rights (plenty of jokes about that, of course).

Oh, and sorry, but I'm calling complete BS on your idea that one won't get the full benefits of mods unless the machine is raced - that's nonsense only a non-moder would believe.

Last edited by Ronnie's.930; 03-25-2015 at 06:32 PM..
Old 03-25-2015, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930 View Post
I don't think a single person here actually gives two shats about financial an/or "my car's Richard is bigger than yours" bragging rights
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Old 03-25-2015, 07:03 PM
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^^^ Norm, my car just told me to tell you that your car can't carry my car's jock!
Old 03-25-2015, 07:21 PM
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Hey there AgentX,

I agree with a lot of the responder so far, in the fact that there is a "wealth of information" on this forum as well as over at Rennslist.

However, there is just as much "personal opinion" , which may or may not bare fruit in the end, there is one person in particular that should be ignored on ALL accounts, everyone here knows to whom I speak, you will figure him out as well.

The trick is sorting out the good, the bad, and the applicable.

I would seriously suggest that you sit down with pad & pen, and be real honest with yourself, as to what exactly you want out of the car, and exactly what you can afford to spend.

For example,
1. Is this going to be a long slow paced project.
2. Or a fast as you can get-r-done project.
3. Do you want a great riding car?
4. Do you want a great handling car?
5. Do you want a investment car {factory stock}?
6. Do you want a daily driver for fun and enjoyment without the concern of end sale value{unlimited personality choice here, pick one}?
7. Do you want only reversible bolt on modifications?

It has been my experience that you can not have it all, at best you can get 2 of the above options.

Some of the package deals that companies offer, for this level or that level of performance, do not necessarily equate to your vision of the end product.
A example of that is in some of the suspension packages that are offered, proclaiming a great balanced end result. I duplicated one such package in my second attempt to get my sled to handle properly, only to be rather disappointed with the end result, and somewhat lighter in the wallet as well.

So take a deep breath, read A LOT, take notes, make phone calls {Chris @ Turbocraft, Ira @ Tarett, Clint @ Rebel Racing} etc. etc. etc. then and only then part with your well earned cash.

My .02 worth.

Mark

Last edited by full quack; 03-25-2015 at 08:41 PM..
Old 03-25-2015, 07:55 PM
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Nice 930 agentx. Now the love affair begins. :-)

Rahl
Old 03-25-2015, 08:37 PM
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Another option would be to put it back together and see what you think of it the way it is. Then upgrade what you want to make better. If you don't know what you have, how do you know what you want to make better? I drove my bone stock 930 for a year before I spent any money on performance upgrades. Of course, then I tumbled down the slippery slope (more like a cliff). My upgrade thread is here in this forum and still ongoing.
You can get a LOT of HP without upgrading engine internals, so see what you have and go from there maybe? If you are missing parts that you have to replace (you kind of implied that), then certainly ask the brain trust here what to get before you buy a stock replacement, but if you already have a functioning IC, turbo, exhaust, etc., put them on and enjoy the car for a bit first.

I would also be VERY hesitant to have a mechanic that is not familiar with Porsche working on your car. I'm sure he is very good - with BMW and Ferrari, but if he is not well versed in air cooled Porsche, everything will take him twice as long since he has never done it and you will pay through the nose to teach him if you are paying hourly while he is learning by making mistakes on your car...

Welcome and good luck!
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Old 03-25-2015, 10:00 PM
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First and foremost thank you for your service to our country that gives us the freedom to enjoy these cars and everything else we take for granted.

This is the most amazing forum with a wealth of knowledge that can help guide you to achieve what you're looking for.

I almost agree with everyone here on the three mods that give you the best bang for your buck; full exhaust, upgraded turbo and good IC.

I fabricated my own IC as close to Kokeln IC specs as possible as I believe that is one of the best half bay IC's (no longer in production) IMO. It appears Fabspeed copied the specs of that IC and that being said, the fabspeed would be my first choice for a half bay IC (if I didn't enjoy fab projects).

I would start with Chris at Turbo Kraft. He helped me through my entire build resulting in great satisfaction.

Slippery slope is a term mentioned a lot in this forum and it's true.

Enjoy!
Old 03-25-2015, 11:28 PM
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