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Jeff, I've still been following this thread even though I haven't commented lately (you're heartbroken by that "no commentary", I'm sure).

You mention "binding on the shaft/splines" (no I'm not going to make a joke . . . yet!) when doing Chris's screwdriver test (still no jokes . . . promise!) - if it were mine, I would want to get the car on the ground, roll it into the driveway and/or street, and drive it around a bit, in at least first gear, so as to "exercise" the clutch and then see how the gearbox functioned after that. I would 100000% do this before committing to dropping the engine/GEARBOX assembly.



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Originally Posted by Jeff NJ View Post
Other than checking . . . the shaft, what else should I look at? Could . . .the shaft . . . play . . . up (my a$$)?

Last edited by Ronnie's.930; 05-21-2015 at 11:29 PM..
Old 05-21-2015, 11:23 PM
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One more time. Adjust the pedal stop at the pedal to see if you can get more travel.
Old 05-22-2015, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by boosted79 View Post
One more time. Adjust the pedal stop at the pedal to see if you can get more travel.
Pedal stop is fully adjusted up so that the clutch pedal actually hits the wood. Cant go any further without cutting wood or removing it altogether.
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Old 05-22-2015, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930 View Post
Jeff, I've still been following this thread even though I haven't commented lately (you're heartbroken by that "no commentary", I'm sure).

You mention "binding on the shaft/splines" (no I'm not going to make a joke . . . yet!) when doing Chris's screwdriver test (still no jokes . . . promise!) - if it were mine, I would want to get the car on the ground, roll it into the driveway and/or street, and drive it around a bit, in at least first gear, so as to "exercise" the clutch and then see how the gearbox functioned after that. I would 100000% do this before committing to dropping the engine/GEARBOX assembly.

I will try to do this, but I am not confident that the car is roadworthy yet, so I'm not going far. Are you thinking it might loosen it up?
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Old 05-22-2015, 01:54 PM
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^^^

Yes Jeff (different meaning than when Paul sez "yyyyeeesssssssss" to dudes wearing nothing but leather jock straps!), that's what I'm thinking. That's what known as "grasping at straws (different than Paul grasping HIS "straw"), but sure seems worth while to try everything possible before dropping the engine/Paulmission again (for reasons you and Chris have just discussed).
Old 05-22-2015, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930 View Post
Paulmission
I would've thought you'd prefer the way "GearPaul" rolls off your tongue ...
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Old 05-22-2015, 04:11 PM
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^^^ Norm, none of Paul's errrrr, ummmm, "gear" is welcome on my tongue!
Old 05-22-2015, 04:15 PM
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I would not give up yet on the clutch arm being off by a spline on the fork shaft. I checked my car and with the pedal all the way down it hits the stop and there is at least a 1/2" clearance between the pedal and the floor board. Tomorrow I'm going to get my car up on jack stands and crawl under it and look at the orientation of the clutch arm relative to the ribs on the diff casting and try to get a pic of it. It's hard for me to believe the clutch assembly is defective. The one time I had a problem with a new clutch it was very obvious. The first time I pushed the pedal in I felt something let go and when I let it out the truck bucked like a bronco. It turned out to be defective rivet installation on the PP. I think that is probably the case most of the time with a defective unit. It either works or it doesn't. Yours just appears to need more travel. If it was a burr on the input shaft you would have had a problem getting the trans to mate to the engine like Chris said.
Old 05-25-2015, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted79 View Post
I would not give up yet on the clutch arm being off by a spline on the fork shaft. I checked my car and with the pedal all the way down it hits the stop and there is at least a 1/2" clearance between the pedal and the floor board. Tomorrow I'm going to get my car up on jack stands and crawl under it and look at the orientation of the clutch arm relative to the ribs on the diff casting and try to get a pic of it. It's hard for me to believe the clutch assembly is defective. The one time I had a problem with a new clutch it was very obvious. The first time I pushed the pedal in I felt something let go and when I let it out the truck bucked like a bronco. It turned out to be defective rivet installation on the PP. I think that is probably the case most of the time with a defective unit. It either works or it doesn't. Yours just appears to need more travel. If it was a burr on the input shaft you would have had a problem getting the trans to mate to the engine like Chris said.
Believe me, I am all ears and will be eternally grateful if you can help me figure it out. The last thing I want to do is pull the motor to fix this. Actually, that is the second to last thing I want to do. The very last thing I want to do is pull the motor only to find out it was an adjustment of some sort outside the motor.

I tried going one spline forward and back and neither was even close to working. I pushed my pedal stop all the way up and to the left a little and the pedal now actually hits the wood. Looking into the clutch assy as it is being released, I have very little, if any, play left in the TOB up against the transmission. Even if I got more play in the cable, lever, or pedal, I am out of room to move the TOB forward anymore.
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Old 05-25-2015, 05:57 PM
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"I tried going one spline forward and back and neither was even close to working."

Well that answers that. Let me take a look at mine tomorrow and see if I can get some pics and see how it compares to yours.
Old 05-25-2015, 06:49 PM
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Yup, just drive it and it will fix itself ... I had the same problem, the clutchplate sticks very little causing this problem. The reverse it always the worse gear if this happens. + one for Ronnie
Old 05-26-2015, 03:59 AM
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I got under mine and took some measurements. The distance between the fork arm and the arm that the cable attaches to is .52" measured at the adjusting bolt, this is the distance the adjusting bolt sticks out plus the freeplay. Yours looks similar. The distance between the fork arm where the spring hooks on and the boss on the diff that the small spring attaches to is 2.3" and yours also looks similar. Like they said, I'd drive it and see what happens.
Old 05-26-2015, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted79 View Post
I got under mine and took some measurements. The distance between the fork arm and the arm that the cable attaches to is .52" measured at the adjusting bolt, this is the distance the adjusting bolt sticks out plus the freeplay. Yours looks similar. The distance between the fork arm where the spring hooks on and the boss on the diff that the small spring attaches to is 2.3" and yours also looks similar. Like they said, I'd drive it and see what happens.
Thanks for looking. Makes me feel more confident that it probably isn't something outside the clutch assy.
I plan on taking it for a spin tonight to get the disc unstuck, and I will post up the results. Hoping for a miracle!
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Old 05-26-2015, 09:20 AM
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Just looked at this thread today and have been through this a couple years ago. Did all the above repairs first then removed the engine and found a new guide tube had been installed on the trans for the t/o bearing by the p/o. The allen bolts had lock washers under the heads.I changed them to the wavy washers and also removed some metal off the allen head to gain more clearance for the t/o bearing fork travel. Been fine now for past 2 years.

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Old 05-26-2015, 02:01 PM
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Well, I made one final check to make sure everything was tightened up, got it off the jackstands and started it up and brought it out to the driveway. Let it warm up for a couple minutes and drove away. Didn't go far or fast, but I did a bunch of first gear starts and then complete stops, put it into neutral and then back into first and did it again a bunch of times. It didn't help... Grinding is still there.

So I resigned myself to pull the motor and started tonight. Got the IC off, electrical stuff disconnected and a few other things and will try to get it dropped tomorrow. I am not a happy camper.


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Originally Posted by Crewchief View Post
Just looked at this thread today and have been through this a couple years ago. Did all the above repairs first then removed the engine and found a new guide tube had been installed on the trans for the t/o bearing by the p/o. The allen bolts had lock washers under the heads.I changed them to the wavy washers and also removed some metal off the allen head to gain more clearance for the t/o bearing fork travel. Been fine now for past 2 years.

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Interesting. I will definitely check that out. I didn't touch those bolts, but who knows if they are tight or installed correctly. Thanks for the idea.
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Old 05-26-2015, 10:14 PM
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^^^

Sorry to read that, Jeff, and dayuuum, I sure hope you have an "ahhhh haaaa" moment (different that the open mouthed "ahhhhhhhhhhh" moments that Paul experiences in truck stop wizzerias), when you unbolt the Paulmission and/or remove the clutch assembly . . .
Old 05-26-2015, 10:40 PM
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I hope you figure it out soon.
Did the previous clutch that destroyed the clutch disc have the same problems, and was it a stock clutch? I guess the clutch cable can't be the problem if it's working smoothly and doing it's job.
This is a weird one.. it's as if your clutch disc is too thick.
I don't have any experience with 930 clutches because I've never removed the one that was in my car when I got it. I only know from the folder of receipts that came with the car the previous owner had the spring center sachs disc put in a few years before I got it.

I have a used KEP stage one pressure plate, used spring center disc with lots of material (the tan color sachs disc) on it still, and a good throw out bearing I bought some years ago and I don't know if I'll ever use them because the stock one works really well.
I think the heavy stock pressure plate is a good match for city driving with a 300-400hp CIS motor and the slow acting synchro units in the 930 gearbox
Old 05-27-2015, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
I hope you figure it out soon.
Did the previous clutch that destroyed the clutch disc have the same problems, and was it a stock clutch? I guess the clutch cable can't be the problem if it's working smoothly and doing it's job.
This is a weird one.. it's as if your clutch disc is too thick.
I don't have any experience with 930 clutches because I've never removed the one that was in my car when I got it. I only know from the folder of receipts that came with the car the previous owner had the spring center sachs disc put in a few years before I got it.

I have a used KEP stage one pressure plate, used spring center disc with lots of material (the tan color sachs disc) on it still, and a good throw out bearing I bought some years ago and I don't know if I'll ever use them because the stock one works really well.
I think the heavy stock pressure plate is a good match for city driving with a 300-400hp CIS motor and the slow acting synchro units in the 930 gearbox
Jim,
The primary reason I pulled the motor was to figure out what was wrong with the clutch. It had the same symptoms I have now - reverse grinding because the disc never completely stops moving. Of course, the slippery slope started and I put a bunch of other stuff in while I was in there...

The disc that came out in pieces was a Sachs spring center disc that looks identical to the one I'm putting in, so the rubber centered disc is long gone. I have a receipt from about 10yrs ago that merely says: "replace clutch" and no parts are listed. The PP looks to be the original one.

I can't imagine that the disc is too thick, but it sure acts like it would if it were too thick. Until I get in there, my working theory is that the disc is not freely sliding on the splined shaft and not releasing from the flywheel. No idea why yet. With any luck, I'll figure it out soon. I'm leaving Thursday for a few days for a golf trip, so if I don't get it apart tonight, I won't know until next week.
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:57 AM
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I hope it is the disc not sliding freely enough on the splines to stop dragging on the flywheel. That seems like the only thing left that could be doing this.
When I've replaced clutches in old single cam 4 and 6 cylinder BMW's I use a q-tip or something similar to smear a little molybdenum disulfide grease in the splines on the transmission input shaft. I have a damaged BMW/Getrag transmission input shaft from a 2002 I use to center the disc when tightening the BMW Sachs pressure plate bolts.

Does the clutch cable slide in and out as smooth a new one? If it was binding or dragging internally maybe it's not letting the pressure plate release fully. That's probably not it though.
Old 05-27-2015, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
I hope it is the disc not sliding freely enough on the splines to stop dragging on the flywheel. That seems like the only thing left that could be doing this.
When I've replaced clutches in old single cam 4 and 6 cylinder BMW's I use a q-tip or something similar to smear a little molybdenum disulfide grease in the splines on the transmission input shaft. I have a damaged BMW/Getrag transmission input shaft from a 2002 I use to center the disc when tightening the BMW Sachs pressure plate bolts.

Does the clutch cable slide in and out as smooth a new one? If it was binding or dragging internally maybe it's not letting the pressure plate release fully. That's probably not it though.
I did use molybdenum grease on the splines when I did the install. Is it possible to over-grease it?

Clutch cable slides smoothly and is nearly brand new.
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Old 05-27-2015, 08:49 AM
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