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Any clutch will do that if you pull it from the circumference at one point only because it wedges on the splines.
Old 06-02-2015, 03:45 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #141 (permalink)
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Make sure that the disc does not wobble. You can check for wobble with the disc on the shaft. A bad wobble would cause a clutch to drag.
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Old 06-02-2015, 05:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #142 (permalink)
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I am pretty sure the new pressure plate is defective.

Turns out one of the three spring plates bottoms out before the other two, so the pressure plate never completely disengages from the friction disc. I looked the whole thing over and cannot find any obvious issue, obstruction or defect. They just compress unevenly... Chris immediately offered to cross ship me a new one while I ship the defective one back, which is the reason why I deal with companies like TurboKraft.

The top picture is the spring that compresses correctly and the bottom is one that is about 1.5mm short of full travel. This is as far as the plate will compress when the TO bearing is at the full travel that it would have when installed. This puts one side of the PP too close to the friction disc, causing my issue...

Had to buy a hydraulic shop press to figure it out, so at least I got a cool new tool out of it.

Off to Cali for a week, so when I get back the part should be at my office and I will test the new one for proper compression before installing.



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Old 06-08-2015, 07:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #143 (permalink)
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Holy ****, Jeff - what a find and excellent attention to detail (and perseverance, too)!
Old 06-08-2015, 08:02 PM
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I went back and looked and Jake nailed the issue in post #6. We sure have some smart fellers here...
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Old 06-08-2015, 08:31 PM
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If that is indeed the cause, that's the worst luck. First time I'll have seen a defective pressure plate.

We'll send it back to Sachs for testing, let you know what they find.
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Old 06-08-2015, 09:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #146 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
If that is indeed the cause, that's the worst luck. First time I'll have seen a defective pressure plate.

We'll send it back to Sachs for testing, let you know what they find.
Boy would it suck if I was wrong, but I literally eliminated everything else as I went along and bought the shop press because I was confident the issue was is in the PP somehow.

I really appreciate you cross shipping me a new one on my word that this is defective, Chris. Anyone can sell parts. What you do when there are issues and how many times you spoke with me about this issue late at night is what sets you apart from much of your competition.
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Old 06-08-2015, 09:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #147 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jeff NJ View Post
. . . is what sets you apart from much of your competition.
I thought it was the fact that Chris is reported to be such a sexy beast?!?!?!
Old 06-08-2015, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930 View Post
I thought it was the fact that Chris is reported to be such a sexy beast?!?!?!
Well, I've never met him or seen a picture, but I'll take your word for it Ronnie since you are clearly an expert on the subject.
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Old 06-08-2015, 09:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #149 (permalink)
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Ha! Yes, I'm an excellent judge of all things sexy and beastly - don't even need a picture to tell!!!
Old 06-08-2015, 09:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #150 (permalink)
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2nd Ronnie's thoughts about well done and great perseverance!

I'd have a knife to my throat or a foot to the back bumper @ a cliff's edge by now I'd bet?

no surprises from Chris - and... he is a pretty sexy biitch! Even bought me dinnar!!! 8-)

best? You'll get to join us in PA 7/23, muuffuukkaahh!!! NOICE!

good luck on the reinstall next week

and again, great job!
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Old 06-09-2015, 05:49 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #151 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
If that is indeed the cause, that's the worst luck. First time I'll have seen a defective pressure plate.
Perhaps. Ever seen a defective chain tensioner idler arm? I ordered up new ones when I rebuilt my 930 engine and one of them was defective. Nothing that could be seen with the eye, but you couldn't install the chainwheel shaft without using a mallet to force it home...and once that was done, the chainwheel would not turn (major binding). I have a hard time understanding how a simple part like that could be screwed up, but it happens.

Here's hoping the new one works a charm and Jeff is back on the road.
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Old 06-09-2015, 06:05 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #152 (permalink)
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Be absolutely sure you have even pressure on all the diaphragm spring fingers when doing that test. If the TOB is cocked at all and not exactly perpendicular to the fingers it can cause what you are seeing. That's the purpose of the guide tube on the trans, it makes sure the TOB stays perpendicular to the fingers. Otherwise it will do what you are seeing.

Edit - It's hard to imagine that the guide tube is defective or installed incorrectly but something else to check. It has to be centered around the input shaft.

Last edited by boosted79; 06-09-2015 at 06:44 AM..
Old 06-09-2015, 06:25 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #153 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted79 View Post
Be absolutely sure you have even pressure on all the diaphragm spring fingers when doing that test. If the TOB is cocked at all and not exactly perpendicular to the fingers it can cause what you are seeing. That's the purpose of the guide tube on the trans, it makes sure the TOB stays perpendicular to the fingers. Otherwise it will do what you are seeing.
I agree and tried numerous times while spinning the PP and each time, no matter how it was positioned, the one spring compressed first and the other two wouldn't.
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Old 06-09-2015, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted79 View Post
Edit - It's hard to imagine that the guide tube is defective or installed incorrectly but something else to check. It has to be centered around the input shaft.
I tested the PP without the guide tube to eliminate having multiple possible culprits. I pressed from the back of the TOB to simulate the PP action. I am confident the guide tube is fine.
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Old 06-09-2015, 06:58 AM
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That's good, looks like you've got it. Something is defective, diaphragm spring, assembly, etc. But it doesn't explain why you had the same problem with the original clutch?
Old 06-09-2015, 07:08 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #156 (permalink)
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The thing in your picture that looks like three layers of steel sandwiched together is not a spring. They are the straps that hold and transmit rotational torque from the the friction plate in the pressure plate assembly to the basket or frame of the pressure plate.
The spring is round and under the friction disc and the fingers the throwout bearing engages with are part of it.

Not sure if I explained that clearly but if you took a pressure plate apart you would see what I mean.
The dry clutch in an old BMW R series motorcycle from the seventies is basically the same but it comes completely apart and makes it easy to see all these parts seperately.
Old 06-09-2015, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
The thing in your picture that looks like three layers of steel sandwiched together is not a spring. They are the straps that hold and transmit rotational torque from the the friction plate in the pressure plate assembly to the basket or frame of the pressure plate.
The spring is round and under the friction disc and the fingers the throwout bearing engages with are part of it.

Not sure if I explained that clearly but if you took a pressure plate apart you would see what I mean.
The dry clutch in an old BMW R series motorcycle from the seventies is basically the same but it comes completely apart and makes it easy to see all these parts seperately.
Thanks Jim. So what pulls the actual pressure plate down when the TOB pulls on the fingers? Is the PP actually attached to the outside of the fingers? How is it attached because I didn't see any bolt or other ways to attach it.
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Old 06-09-2015, 08:45 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #158 (permalink)
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Been following this thread with interest due to just replacing my clutch. I really have nothing to add, other than a few questions.

1) You stated that you had this problem before you replaced the new disk, did you reuse the PP and just replace the disk and orig problem now continues? Or did you replace with new PP/Disk/TB and problem still continues?

2) Did this problem immed begin the first time you installed this (potentially defective) PP? If not, when did this problem first surface???
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Old 06-09-2015, 08:47 AM
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Both of these questions are related, so I figured I'd answer both at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timc View Post
Been following this thread with interest due to just replacing my clutch. I really have nothing to add, other than a few questions.

1) You stated that you had this problem before you replaced the new disk, did you reuse the PP and just replace the disk and orig problem now continues? Or did you replace with new PP/Disk/TB and problem still continues?

2) Did this problem immed begin the first time you installed this (potentially defective) PP? If not, when did this problem first surface???
Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted79 View Post
That's good, looks like you've got it. Something is defective, diaphragm spring, assembly, etc. But it doesn't explain why you had the same problem with the original clutch?
My original problem was that my friction disc failed and it came out in multiple pieces. I can tell by the wear marks on the disc that one piece was overlapping another at least some of the time, so there was not enough range of motion on the PP for it to release completely since the friction disc was effectively too thick.

The current problem is that the PP doesn't release evenly, so one side is too close to the friction disc and does not completely release. This was evident the first time I tried to get it into reverse, so IMO, the part was defective before it was installed. Since I was able to replicate this outside of the motor on my press, I do not believe it is something else causing the issue and damaging the new PP. The old PP is fine and works correctly when I put it back in for testing purposes. I did use the other new parts (other than the PP and the extended collar) and it fully released and the old PP is not damaged, so I am confident that the rest of the parts are fine.

So, as slim as these odds are, it seems that I had two separate and completely different issues that both caused the same problem of the PP not completely releasing, which prohibited reverse from being engaged. I know, what are the odds? I should go play the lottery with the Sachs part #. LOL.

Of course, this is all depending on what Sachs says when they get my PP and if the new PP that Chris is sending works correctly. I believe I am correct, but until I can slip it into reverse without issue, I would consider myself cautiously optimistic.
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Old 06-09-2015, 10:21 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #160 (permalink)
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