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Are you still working on this?
Old 03-19-2016, 03:53 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #41 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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This is a very, very active project
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 03-19-2016, 03:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #42 (permalink)
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Franken CIS on supercharged 3.0

I have a very basic question with CIS. Here's my steps.

1. Purchased tuner studio pro

2. Downloaded Franken CIS firmware from 2015-05-05 zip file on website.

3. Loaded firmware using MS Loader

4. Downlaoded Franken CIS manual

5. Section 3 it says the following

System Setup and Tuning
After loading the project and connecting to the microsquirt as per the main manual, the screen
should look similar to the following,

What project, what main manual is this referring to. isn't there a tunerstudio project that matches this firmware load already created someplace? Do I need to create this screen layout?


Heres what I expected.

Load firmware.

Load project

update ECU definition.

In 5 minutes I expected to see screens that look just like the posts on Pelican
Old 04-17-2016, 06:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #43 (permalink)
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I have a very basic question with CIS. Here's my steps.

1. Purchased tuner studio pro

2. Downloaded Franken CIS firmware from 2015-05-05 zip file on website.

3. Loaded firmware using MS Loader

4. Downlaoded Franken CIS manual

5. Section 3 it says the following

System Setup and Tuning
After loading the project and connecting to the microsquirt as per the main manual, the screen
should look similar to the following,




What project, what main manual is this referring to. isn't there a tunerstudio project that matches this firmware load already created someplace? Do I need to create this screen layout?


Heres what I expected.

Load firmware.

Load project

update ECU definition.

In 5 minutes I expected to see screens that look just like the posts on Pelican
Old 04-17-2016, 06:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #44 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 491
can you post a screen shot of what you are currently seeing on the main screen

if everything is loaded correctly you are only a few clicks away from replicating the sample shot
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 04-17-2016, 07:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #45 (permalink)
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FrankenCIS

The system is wired and running on the car. I have wide swings in CP and the target CP reads 0. It is responding to the base control pressure settings. Looking for suggestions.
Old 04-26-2016, 01:16 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #46 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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please email a copy of the tune file so I can check the setup

in tuner studio
- File - Save Tune As

and send it to tech@reanimotion.com
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 04-26-2016, 01:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #47 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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The log file you just sent mike looks ok, it just needed the data channels to be scaled in the log viewer to not look so scary

to set a channel scale


then add



do the same for the Control Target

Target and actual CP is tracking nicely, the bumps in CP are 1/10th of a second apart and around 10kpa which is fine given the close coupled injector/damper and sensor
AFR seems rock steady which is the result we want

It may just be tuner studio not behaving with the Target CP gauge, this could be due to the changes in firmware when you first set this up, the dash may be referencing the old firmware channel on that gauge.
right click on it and reselect the channel


__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 04-26-2016, 03:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #48 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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This is getting exciting!!!
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- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 04-26-2016, 03:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #49 (permalink)
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Garage
im still checking in on the progress . plz dont stop with the info
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1986 944 turbo -first car
1997 993 Cab 6 speed-sold
1992 964 C2 turbo
SOLD, 911GT ,CIS, 428 fwhp 450 trq, Carrillo rods, 964 cams, TT retainers,7.5 comp 1.1 bar boost 320 ml black fuel head 009 injectors, 044 pumps, 60-1 T4/T3 dual scroll turbo
Old 04-26-2016, 04:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #50 (permalink)
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CP target 0 and swings

Steve,

I spoke to Mike last night, we had a long chat. The CP gauge was not pointing to the correct variable, all set with that. Now its pointing to kJetTargetKPA. I will re-scale the graphs. The large swings looked violent on the mechanical gauge, could have been partially due to the rubber hoses connecting the Head to the gauge and digital WUR.

Before I start it this morning I would like to verify the CP target. My Kjet control pressure base map has me starting this morning at engine temp (coolant) at 8 Deg c. In my table thats a CP of 220. Right now the Target CP is pointing on 327. I have no RPM,MAP or MAT and AFR is off the chart above 19.

If I change my CP in the base map the target CP changes however it is not showing a target that is in my base pressure map. I only have one shot this morning to start it at 8 deg C, and I want to get it right before I start. If it will change the target once its running and sees the other sensors, I will attempt to start it.

I flowed the heads with and without injectors. I will do this test one more time but it appears the limit is really the head. I got slightly less flow with the injectors removed.

Increasing System pressure had no affect. I do not if my pump is maxed out. Prior to shimming I was at 4.6 bar system pressure, when opening the sensor plate and all injectors flowing it dropped to 4.3 bar. Same test with shimmed head and I was able to get a system pressure of 5.6 bar, with sensor plated opened and all injectors flow it was reading 5.2 bar. A significant increase in system pressure with zero change in flow. This is what I expected based on reading posts here.

I will be taking this metering valve to the lab and looking at it under the scope. I will measure the profile and see if its possible for us to machine it. We can grind a new electrode and re-machine the slots on one of out turbine blade machines. I may scrap a spool or two so if anyone has any they want to sacrifice in an attempt to learn something for everyone, that's what will happen. I have no interest in keeping secrets. My interest is to find out how this thing works and report back. I want a CIS head to flow 400 HP and maintain idle characteristics up to mid range. If I can do that the sky may be the limit on modifying these heads. Using a modified and Reanimotions Digital WUR I think this can work for a lot of cars.

This machine is not the backyard machine. So obviously this isn't something that anyone can do. Maybe we cannot. However given 32 years in the marketplace producing extremely high accuracy EDM machines for the Jet and Land based turbine industry as well as the fuel injector market I do believe its possible. It may be machined from scratch (metering spool) and then burned. Pictures of it I have seen lead me to believe that may be possible.

when I read posts about modifications made by working with Universities in Germany I believe this can be done with one of these machines.

We currently have machines that use round tungsten electrodes with a .010 diameter and a hole in the center of them for water to flow thru. For all the nay-sayers this is old technology. These electrodes can burn thru almost any alloy known to man. We can move the part in slow increments to create shaped holes with this machine. The result is hundreds of cooling holes blasted in hundreds of blades and veins, all flow tested. The highest grade of components for commercial and Military jet engines. Certainly more accurate than a CIS metering spool. We can grind/shape electrodes to make a one cut pass. If Bosch did it 35 years ago, the right guy with the right machine can do it now.

If anyone on here has more information they would like to share please speak out. I will admit I'm new to how this head works, but I think it time for the "black magic" of CIS to be exposed.
Old 04-27-2016, 09:07 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #51 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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That is one serious EDM machine. This just gets more interesting by the day!
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- 1979 930
Old 04-27-2016, 09:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #52 (permalink)
 
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Boosted CIS Heads

Kenikh

It's for serious jobs.... nothing more serious than CIS

Steve,

One more thing, I unplugged the sensor plate to run the pump. frankenCIS WUR is targeting the CP on the CP target gauge. 327, not the CP on the base pressure map. again it may be due to no RPM or other sensor inputs. Attached is a picture.

Old 04-27-2016, 09:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #53 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awjens View Post
Kenikh

It's for serious jobs.... nothing more serious than CIS

Steve,

One more thing, I unplugged the sensor plate to run the pump. frankenCIS WUR is targeting the CP on the CP target gauge. 327, not the CP on the base pressure map. again it may be due to no RPM or other sensor inputs. Attached is a picture.

I'd say that MFI is at least as serious as CIS, but I digress: the mechanical precision to which machines were built, given digital alternatives, even to 25 years ago, is mind boggling.
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 04-27-2016, 09:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #54 (permalink)
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CP Target

I started the engine, it was at 8 deg C. It cranked for less than 2 seconds and started up. CP target was at about 200. CP Actual was following target. Ran it up to 90 deg C and then shut it down. started it 3-4 times, 1 second crank, CP target and control on the money.

Revving the engine (its on a stand) CP lowers as expected as engine comes on boost. Need to make a determination to put it in the car, or wait to try modifying a spool. I'm concerned about going lean on the high end under boost. I am going to start a new thread on modifying CIS heads.





Old 04-27-2016, 10:17 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #55 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awjens View Post
I'm concerned about going lean on the high end under boost.
Being still somewhat unfamiliar with the Megasquirt software, the logical approach would be to pull boost on a lean AFR threshold trigger as a failesafe. Anybody know if the auxiliary tables in MS support this? Or as a second option, wire the cold start to blow fuel at the observed lean RPM threshold.
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 04-27-2016, 10:24 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #56 (permalink)
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Boosted engines and CIS

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
Being still somewhat unfamiliar with the Megasquirt software, the logical approach would be to pull boost on a lean AFR threshold trigger as a failesafe. Anybody know if the auxiliary tables in MS support this? Or as a second option, wire the cold start to blow fuel at the observed lean RPM threshold.
kenikh,

I built this engine a while back (1998). I started firing the cold start with a circuit board i designed and built. That cured the lean problem. the problem was it didn't disperse fuel evenly to all 6 cylinders. I know this because of the Nasa looking VFR control panel I built and the 8 o2 sensors installed in a set of SSI's. Later EGT probes. I made it rich enough to prevent any of the 6 cylinders from leaning. Later I added two injectors after my supercharger which performed much better. The result was still to rich. Using that in conjunction with Franken CIS and programming an output on MS to fire those injectors does two things. first a very controlled boost/rpm to fire it, and second the ability to switch to another table in MS with a whole new set of CP's to keep it from becoming too rich, yet fully tunable.

I discussed this with Mike (DKUBUS) last night. He believes its possible. I did not have a MS in 1998 so my methods while crude were effective with the exception of a lot of wasted fuel and probably horsepower.
Old 04-27-2016, 11:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #57 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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Posts: 491
Sorry folks, It seems I've woken up to the end of a busy day over there.

Congratulations on getting it up and running

Yes the Microsquirt needs at least 50 RPM cranking speed to come out of fuel cut mode, and begin targeting the CP.
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Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 04-27-2016, 03:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #58 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
Being still somewhat unfamiliar with the Megasquirt software, the logical approach would be to pull boost on a lean AFR threshold trigger as a failesafe. Anybody know if the auxiliary tables in MS support this? Or as a second option, wire the cold start to blow fuel at the observed lean RPM threshold.
One of the programmable outputs could be setup to cut the fuel pump or spark if AFR went over a certain value when in boost

say
AFR > 13
and
MAP > 110
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com
Old 04-27-2016, 03:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #59 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reanimotion View Post
One of the programmable outputs could be setup to cut the fuel pump or spark if AFR went over a certain value when in boost

say
AFR > 13
and
MAP > 110
Good idea Steve. I will incorporate that before i get on the Dyno. I'm trying to find someone in the Motor City that can hang onto this thing and run it so I don't have to do these tests in the car.
Old 04-28-2016, 08:13 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #60 (permalink)
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