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Alan L's Avatar
 
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If the problem persists (brothers) after doing above, and he has rubber lines, replace. It is not the one that locks first that is the issue in that case, it is the other one. What happens is the rubber gets old and not as strong under brake pressure. And will bulge slightly = slower to lock the wheel, or may not lock it at all. Why steel braided is preferable.
Regards
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 12-01-2017, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
If the problem persists (brothers) after doing above, and he has rubber lines, replace. It is not the one that locks first that is the issue in that case, it is the other one. What happens is the rubber gets old and not as strong under brake pressure. And will bulge slightly = slower to lock the wheel, or may not lock it at all. Why steel braided is preferable.
Regards
Alan
From one of the "brothers", I have SS Lines, installed when I first bought car in 2006....RF started locking up sometime later. I'll start with other brother's recommendation.

tim
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1986 930
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Last edited by timc; 12-01-2017 at 12:19 PM..
Old 12-01-2017, 12:16 PM
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Picked up the assembly lube. Permatex 24125.

Won't have time for a week or so to pop the pistons, inspect, and reinstall.

So I tried putting in the old worn pads causing the pistons to extend quite a bit out. Now the caliper does not seem to be dragging as much. Almost not at all. I've been measuring temps after driving. The passenger side has consistently been 20C higher than the driver side. Now with the old pads both side measure about the same.
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Old 12-01-2017, 03:52 PM
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I just did a mates SC calipers - sticking pads. Replaced the seals. perfect. The old seals looked fine when pulled out. But what else could it be? New seals and works fine. I think the general seal looks OK but the edge gets hardened.
Regards
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 12-02-2017, 12:29 AM
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when brother 2 told brother 3 (me) about his wheel locking, first thing I though of was weight jacking or too much weight on one corner. I did not expect sticking pistons from 930 calipers.

pull the calipers, put s 2x4 on where the rotor goes. use compressed air to pop the pistons out.
be VERY careful with them, they have some kind of ceramic costing on them. all pistons should pop out relatively at the same time. may be slight delays but in my case it was several seconds.
after lube job (did rawknees hear that) they all popped within a second of each other and they all pressed back in easily.

is that the proper lube for the calipers.
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 12-04-2017, 03:20 AM
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What is the recommended lube? Hard to imagine lube staying there for a decade or two? I just replaced seals on a brothers SC brakes. They were binding - rotors not running free. Once the seals were replaced, problem solved. But I did not lube them. Just coated with brake fluid.
Regards
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 12-04-2017, 09:49 AM
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The reason why Porsche caliper assembly lube is so expensive is because it's near 100% silicone to handle high heat and last long. NAPA has Sil-glyde at around 50% and I've used it but YMMV with regards to track use etc.

Use the grease. Porsche has always used a tighter fit between caliper and piston than other makes and last I looked the service manual does spec its use.
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Old 12-04-2017, 10:42 AM
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Ronnie - KY is no good!. Any piston binding?
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 12-04-2017, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
What is the recommended lube?
A well known Porsche caliper restorer uses Permatex 24125 available at your FLAPS.

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Old 12-04-2017, 11:41 AM
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Interesting. I found a can of the Permatex stuff here but always thought it was for sliding calipers, back of pads, etc. Seems in the description it can be used on caliper pistons. Maybe I'll try it on a used car as I'm a little concerned about the ceramic solids gumming up the caliper bores or causing other issues. I hate doing these more than once!
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:02 AM
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Finally got time to pull the caliper and pop the pistons in the sticking passenger side. Pulled the scraper rings out too to inspect.

All the pistons looked ok (by my eye) and none of the barrels had any abnormalities (again, by my eye).

Funny thing though, I mated each piston with each scraper ring and tried sliding the scraper rings along the piston. Everything had a coating of brake fluid so scrapers and pistons were wet.

As I held the scrapers with fingers and thumb of one hand a pushed the piston in, it was like the scraper was glued to the piston. The piston wouldn't move and I held the scrapers as even as possible.

The scrapers also looked a bit deformed as well. They are new. Their cross sections looked like a parallelogram (right side) instead of a rectangle (left side).



I used the assembly lube on the scrapers and the piston. They went in smooth as silk. Very little pressure needed to push them all the way in. Very different from the first time with just brake fluid and heating the caliper while freezing the pistons. Everything was room temp this time.

The result is still the same. They drag just a bit when no brake applied. Not as bad as before but still dragging. Something is still amiss.
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Old 12-08-2017, 05:27 PM
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Try posting on the 911 tech forum. There may be a difference with the 930 ceramic coated pistons, but lots of wrenches follow that forum.
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 12-09-2017, 11:40 PM
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That was a pretty good article but one thing I do differently is lightly scrub the caliper bores with fine scotchbrite if there are any signs of scuffing. But this causes a lot of debris that you can’t really see by eye so I will wash them out with hot water and detergent. Like the bore of an engine block, brake clean doesn’t remove everything. Blow with air after cleaning and apply lube right away.

It would be wise to do both left and right to get equal braking action from the beginning. Less chance of customer complaints about uneven braking.

There will be some run-in time needed. On systems with huge brakes (most Porsche’s) I like to generate heat after rebuild by driving around with left foot on brakes while under power. Like 15 seconds on/off. Add some moderate to hard stops from 50-20 mph. Only then do I make a final judgment on sticking, etc. Everything settles somewhat with the heat if rebuild was correct.
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Last edited by manbridge 74; 12-10-2017 at 06:11 AM..
Old 12-10-2017, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
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Finally got time to pull the caliper and pop the pistons in the sticking passenger side. Pulled the scraper rings out too to inspect.

All the pistons looked ok (by my eye) and none of the barrels had any abnormalities (again, by my eye).

Funny thing though, I mated each piston with each scraper ring and tried sliding the scraper rings along the piston. Everything had a coating of brake fluid so scrapers and pistons were wet.

As I held the scrapers with fingers and thumb of one hand a pushed the piston in, it was like the scraper was glued to the piston. The piston wouldn't move and I held the scrapers as even as possible.

The scrapers also looked a bit deformed as well. They are new. Their cross sections looked like a parallelogram (right side) instead of a rectangle (left side).



I used the assembly lube on the scrapers and the piston. They went in smooth as silk. Very little pressure needed to push them all the way in. Very different from the first time with just brake fluid and heating the caliper while freezing the pistons. Everything was room temp this time.

The result is still the same. They drag just a bit when no brake applied. Not as bad as before but still dragging. Something is still amiss.
i found the exact same thing. same with the rings. at first I thought that is how they are and got worried they had to go in a certain way, up or down.
take a look at the groove they fit in. it looked like to me the groove is also angled to make the seals deform like that or so they stick out on one side. put the seal back in and rub you finger over it.
the new one were not deformed like that but I could feel the edge after I put them back in.

I personally would not scotch bright the inside. just clean out old dirty fluid.

again, same problem. even with fluid on the OLD seals I could not get the pistons to go back in easily.

thus the need for some type of grease or assy lube.

be very careful with the pistons, don't scratch them
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 12-11-2017, 04:00 AM
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To be clear, only the lightest clean-up is required of the bores. If there were NO axial marks I wouldn’t use any Scotchbrite....
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:04 AM
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be VERY careful with them, they have some kind of . . . coating on them. all . . . should pop . . . at the same time. . . . but in my case it was several seconds. after lube job (did rawknees hear that)
???

!!!



Dayyyuummmnnn, it sounds like you really know how to paaarrrrtaaaayyyyy - nice!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
Ronnie - KY is no good!. Any piston binding?
Alan
Piston binding is in direct correlation with with bore circumference!
Old 12-11-2017, 08:18 AM
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knees, I have left the door open for you on a few other threads, surprised your ears did not perk up like a dog spotting a bird. I am very disappointed
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 12-11-2017, 08:36 AM
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Hmmmm, I need be be more vigilant going forward (different than Deez going backwards )!


PS - is "door" a euphemism for ??? . . .

Last edited by Rawknees'Turbo; 12-11-2017 at 08:46 AM..
Old 12-11-2017, 08:44 AM
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I did this last winter and got a good look at it.

The caliper bolt seems to have a very grippy coating on it, like very fine shark skin. The 2 rubber rings are designed to grip that (no revelation there) and get slightly deformed when the brake pedal is pushed such that they want to return to shape and pull the bolt back slightly when foot is removed.
These rubber grip can handle a certain level of deformity, beyond that the bolt will slide past as brake pad material is consumed, and then resume pull back. What would be the purpose of letting the caliper bolt slide past easily with no pull back?

Sorry if this is already obvious on this thread but I just wanted to share my thoughts on this.

The inner ring below on the right side is the squared off O ring (if that makes sense). and that helps pull back


The outer rings (the ones with the metal ring) also look architected to have the ability to pull back. imagine them gripping the bolt and as the rubber is pushed out, it then wants to pull back after to come back into shape.

Old 12-11-2017, 10:14 AM
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