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'76 911S 3.0's Avatar
 
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Here is what my NA igntion map ended up looking like all said and done:

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-Jayson
1976 911S Signature Edition - 3.2SSt (JE 98mm 9.5:1 pistons, 964 Cams, ARP Rod Bolts, Big Port SC Heads, 3.2 Carrera Manifold, ID725's, B&B Headers, TS HyperGate45 Gen V, TS RacePort, BW S360, AEM Infinity 506, E85)
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Old 01-17-2018, 10:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #81 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '76 911S 3.0 View Post
Those are from my ignition map when it was dyno tuned NA a while back...we saw no increase in power going beyond those numbers at WOT. I don't know what your compression is or whether you are twin plug or not, mine is 9.5:1 single plug...
It's hard to compare since you are tuned by TPS and not load.

2nd, I am a full two points lower than you on CR. I'm 7.5:1.

Were you on corn too during the NA tune session, or regular E10?? <-- that's a big deal.
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 01-17-2018, 10:46 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #82 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
It's hard to compare since you are tuned by TPS and not load.

2nd, I am a full two points lower than you on CR. I'm 7.5:1.

Were you on corn too during the NA tune session, or regular E10?? <-- that's a big deal.
Agreed, but 100% throttle is ~101 kPa here at sea level. The 2 full points makes a difference for sure, and was also tuned on good old 90% dino. The corn is coming once the car goes back on the dyno for the turbo calibration.

I think our two configurations are too far apart to really draw a solid comparison, I think the OP falls closer in line with your build as they are using 8:1 pistons. It's always useful to see what others are using and how everything turns out. I really think we need a sticky thread in here with calibrations/ignition/fuel maps with posts regarding all pertinent information for those who are willing to share and those who are looking.
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1976 911S Signature Edition - 3.2SSt (JE 98mm 9.5:1 pistons, 964 Cams, ARP Rod Bolts, Big Port SC Heads, 3.2 Carrera Manifold, ID725's, B&B Headers, TS HyperGate45 Gen V, TS RacePort, BW S360, AEM Infinity 506, E85)
IG: Signature_911
Old 01-17-2018, 11:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #83 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '76 911S 3.0 View Post
Agreed, but 100% throttle is ~101 kPa here at sea level. The 2 full points makes a difference for sure, and was also tuned on good old 90% dino. The corn is coming once the car goes back on the dyno for the turbo calibration.

I think our two configurations are too far apart to really draw a solid comparison, I think the OP falls closer in line with your build as they are using 8:1 pistons. It's always useful to see what others are using and how everything turns out. I really think we need a sticky thread in here with calibrations/ignition/fuel maps with posts regarding all pertinent information for those who are willing to share and those who are looking.
Agreed. But I think your numbers are better since you were tuned to MBT.

Anything over MBT has to the potential to detonate. I'll try your map when I get mine back together to see.

We are both on 98mm cylinders, but you have a shorter stroke. Things that have to be kept in mind.
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 01-17-2018, 11:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #84 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '76 911S 3.0 View Post
Agreed, but 100% throttle is ~101 kPa here at sea level.
I can hit 100% load at half-throttle (say TPS @ 50%). Using your method of TPS, that would make the engine much leaner than using MAP load.

Just throwing that out there.
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 01-17-2018, 11:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #85 (permalink)
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I love all this information! I feel spoiled. I now have 3 ignition maps to compare, so I should be able to come up with something that works for me.

- Speaking of compression ratios, what boost levels are safe with my build? I'm speaking of the 8:1 CR. My intercooler is rather tiny. It's a cheap Ebay unit. I currently have a Tial with a .7 bar spring. I heard that could yield 10-12 lbs. I'm sure my 44 lb injectors would be a limiting factor for me.
Old 01-17-2018, 12:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #86 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hill3312 View Post
I love all this information! I feel spoiled. I now have 3 ignition maps to compare, so I should be able to come up with something that works for me.

- Speaking of compression ratios, what boost levels are safe with my build? I'm speaking of the 8:1 CR. My intercooler is rather tiny. It's a cheap Ebay unit. I currently have a Tial with a .7 bar spring. I heard that could yield 10-12 lbs. I'm sure my 44 lb injectors would be a limiting factor for me.
Use Jayson's map. Mine might be too aggressive, and he has actual dyno time on his.

But, we have good gas here in Texas. 93 octane, and I pretty much only use Chevron unless there is nothing else.

Jayson is in Cali, which I believe is 91 only????? Makes a difference.
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 01-17-2018, 12:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #87 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
Use Jayson's map. Mine might be too aggressive, and he has actual dyno time on his.

But, we have good gas here in Texas. 93 octane, and I pretty much only use Chevron unless there is nothing else.

Jayson is in Cali, which I believe is 91 only????? Makes a difference.
Yeah, Cali only has 91... Jayson's map is TPS, is throttle position similar to map values for load? I would think boost throws this off at least a little.
Old 01-17-2018, 12:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #88 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hill3312 View Post
Yeah, Cali only has 91... Jayson's map is TPS, is throttle position similar to map values for load? I would think boost throws this off at least a little.
Yes, you cannot use TPS for load. MAP (load) is what you need with boost.

I was on a EFI tuning page where this was discussed ad nauseam. TPS as load with boost ='s BOOM!
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 01-17-2018, 12:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #89 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
I can hit 100% load at half-throttle (say TPS @ 50%). Using your method of TPS, that would make the engine much leaner than using MAP load.

Just throwing that out there.
Completely agree. If you look at my map, the timing does not change beyond 45-50% throttle, indicating that the manifold pressure has equalized with the ambient pressure outside the throttle body.

For Hill3312, I would use the 50% TPS line from my calibration for your 101kPa row, then as a good starting point, reducing the timing 1 degree for every pound of boost. This should give your tuner a good starting point for when the vehicle is on the dyno.
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-Jayson
1976 911S Signature Edition - 3.2SSt (JE 98mm 9.5:1 pistons, 964 Cams, ARP Rod Bolts, Big Port SC Heads, 3.2 Carrera Manifold, ID725's, B&B Headers, TS HyperGate45 Gen V, TS RacePort, BW S360, AEM Infinity 506, E85)
IG: Signature_911
Old 01-17-2018, 01:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #90 (permalink)
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If I just get the assembled MS2 with everything I need, will I be able to use the Tbitz harness I have and just add the EDIS stuff? Are all the pins and their functions carried over from MS1?
Old 01-17-2018, 04:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #91 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
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The v3.0 and v3.57 boards should use the same harness since the circuits are virtually the same minus some additions in the 3.57 boards.

What I don't know is, is the 3.0 MS1 the same as the others? Meaning, if TBitz uses a 3.0 MS1 unit, will the MS2 3.57 work the same?

My gut is saying no. But do not know 100% as I've never messed with MS1.
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Cory - turbo'd '87 C3.2 Guards/Blk, 3.4, 7.5:1 CR P & C's, soon to be 993SS cams and GSXR 750 ITB's fed by 964 intake, Borg-Warner S366 turbo @ 1.4 bar, Treadstone full bay IC, TiAL F46 WG, HKS 1 1/2" BOV, twin 044 pumps, MegaSquirt 2 (v3.57 board) w/EDIS, Tramont wheels (285's rr, 225's frt), Big Reds frt, 993 rr., tower brace, MOMO wheel
Old 01-22-2018, 07:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #92 (permalink)
 
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One way to convert a map from TPS to load or vice versa is wih MegaLogViewer. Once tuned, drive the car through different operating ranges while collecting data. Have MLV output the data as the desired table.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:13 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #93 (permalink)
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I do not think that Tony builds his harness with complete wiring. pull back the cover and make sure you have an ignition output wire. You will also not have the 3 TPS wires (5Vref, signal, ground).
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #94 (permalink)
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Hey guys, which connections do I need to maintain on the stock engine harness? I know I need oil pressure sender and the AAR, but what else should be hooked up?
Old 01-23-2018, 01:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #95 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hill3312 View Post
Hey guys, which connections do I need to maintain on the stock engine harness? I know I need oil pressure sender and the AAR, but what else should be hooked up?
There should be temp on there too (goes to the passenger side chain cover), as well as your alternator connections, battery cable from starter to alternator, 50 circuit for the starter, and reverse light switch (2 wires).

The oil pressure sender, oil temp sender, starter 50 circuit, and reverse light switch wires all go to the 14 pin connector in the drivers side on the CDI panel.

Here is the pinout I made for that connector (from a '79 SC harness). Verify that this matches your later model SC harness. The "chassis harness color" column is the color of the factory wires. There is also a black with violet tracer in that connector for your tach signal (I did not use this as I ran a new wire up to the dash).

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-Jayson
1976 911S Signature Edition - 3.2SSt (JE 98mm 9.5:1 pistons, 964 Cams, ARP Rod Bolts, Big Port SC Heads, 3.2 Carrera Manifold, ID725's, B&B Headers, TS HyperGate45 Gen V, TS RacePort, BW S360, AEM Infinity 506, E85)
IG: Signature_911
Old 01-23-2018, 04:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #96 (permalink)
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Hey guys, thought I would share that the engine and trans go in tomorrow and first start is expected within a week. We have a solid idea of how MS2 hooks up with EDIS 6 and how everything else is to be set up for fuel injection. I guess we just need to add EDIS SAW to pin 36 and have it shielded together with PIP to pin 24. Then we just need to configure everything correctly on the software side and we should be good to go.

There has certainly been some frustration with the factory harness. It seems after all these years that all of the connectors, and in some cases, the wires themselves are so dry and brittle that they want to break very easily. Fortunately, a fair bit has been replaced by the MS2 harness.

The Goingsuperfast 36-1 ring came in and we sourced the Ford Focus crank position sensor and Crown Vic wires locally from a parts store. I decided to go with NGK BPR7ES for spark plugs as I've heard they work well in this conversion. I'm just waiting on the assembled MS2 box from DIYautotune and my adjustable FPR and that should be everything needed to get started.

In addition to that, I figured it was the right time to add a little bit more meat in the tire department. Last weekend we drove all the way up to downtown LA to pick up the Kinesis k57 wheels pictured below. I've been very happy with my BFG G-Force comp 2 tires, so I chose the same for these but this time in 225 45 up front and 255 40 in the rear. On the way home, we found a killer deal on a Kegerator and couldn't resist.

- One question to cap this off. I'm curious about the connector in the photo below. There is one on the drives side and one on the passenger side but I don't see anything that shape in the harness. What did these go to? I pulled the motor almost 2 years ago and no longer remember any of that. Thanks for all the feedback guys, you helped make all of this possible!

Old 01-23-2018, 06:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #97 (permalink)
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That connector is for the tail lights. Should be a mate on the chassis near the tail lights
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-Jayson
1976 911S Signature Edition - 3.2SSt (JE 98mm 9.5:1 pistons, 964 Cams, ARP Rod Bolts, Big Port SC Heads, 3.2 Carrera Manifold, ID725's, B&B Headers, TS HyperGate45 Gen V, TS RacePort, BW S360, AEM Infinity 506, E85)
IG: Signature_911
Old 01-23-2018, 07:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #98 (permalink)
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I love K57s...nice choice.
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Old 01-24-2018, 08:01 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #99 (permalink)
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I'm concerned about this oil line. The old one was damaged so I got this new one. It doesn't seem to have the bends quite right to be able to fit tucked up in the stock location, so it's left hanging too low.

- Are there options for this line? Is there one that goes around the back of the motor? I've seen other 911SC turbos with OBX headers and you can't even see this line.




Old 01-29-2018, 06:12 PM
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