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3 restos WIP = psycho
 
kenikh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North of Exit 17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr9146 View Post
Nobody makes it in kit form, but you can build it yourself with these 5 pieces (available through the host):

930.116.081.11 T/O bearing
99.15.15.081 T/O extension sleeve
99.01.68.230 Ring gear spacer
930.116.014.02 Clutch disc
88.3082.999.594 Pressure plate (RUF BTR and Sachs Racing department)

I don't use KEP if I can avoid it ... factory parts whenever possible.
Agree. Unless you are running a G50, KEP is for masochists. Leg pressure is way too heavy. I'm running a BTR clutch and love it.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 07-12-2016, 07:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
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^^^^ wussies! JK.

The stage II KEP PP is not for the faint of heart. I can squat like 200 more lbs with my left leg over my right. Kidding again, but a friend who squats over 500 said he couldn't believe how hard my clutch was.
Old 07-12-2016, 10:27 AM
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3 restos WIP = psycho
 
kenikh's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
^^^^ wussies! JK.

The stage II KEP PP is not for the faint of heart. I can squat like 200 more lbs with my left leg over my right. Kidding again, but a friend who squats over 500 said he couldn't believe how hard my clutch was.
You CAN make it work - the question is: do you want to?

BTW, here are my calculations in terms of lost CR at idle, across a number of cams for 930s:

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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930

Last edited by kenikh; 07-12-2016 at 10:57 AM..
Old 07-12-2016, 10:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GJF View Post
I can't stress it enough. If you can, please upgrade the Pistons to higher compression. I know it is an extra expense, you will instantly think why it wasn't done long time ago. 7:1 was an old school bandaid when turbocharging was not really understood. It causes no low speed response due to non existing low speed port velocity. Excessive fuel consumption during low speeds. And it promotes lag. There is no win with 7:1.
You know off the top of your head shaving the jugs to aid squish and approaching zero deck height would do for CR??? Or do you have to drop the flat-tops completely and get some kind of raised crowns? I'm 98mm.
Old 07-12-2016, 10:29 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Great information from many angles, appreciate it.
I'll have to get to a large screen to check out that cam chart.

The parameters of this build are set:
Stock C/R, Stock Pistons
42mm intake ports 38mm exhaust
I can change cams, will not cut the pistons.

THE focus here is, given the above constraints, what cam grind will give me the best power without blowing out the bottom end.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 07-12-2016, 10:54 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Great information from many angles, appreciate it.
I'll have to get to a large screen to check out that cam chart.

Brian, made the image bigger above for you.
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 07-12-2016, 10:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
 
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
THE focus here is, given the above constraints, what cam grind will give me the best power without blowing out the bottom end.
Simply:
  • DC15 (Sport SC) cams
  • 38mm I/E ports
This little combo using stock compression is SCARY fast and has great bottom end. Cnielsen's car ran this combo before he went insane and rebuilt it to 600HP spec. Although we never dynoed that car, seat of pants was easily 450 HP and had great bottom end.

If you are boring your ports, here's a little trick I did that Dirk would approve of: cut my ports to 40mm, bored my manifold to 40mm, then taper bored my injectors blocks from 40mm top > 38mm bottom to create a reversion ledge.
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- 1965 911
- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 07-12-2016, 11:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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My assumption was that SC or SC330 cams would run out of juice up top which would not fully utilize the port sizing.
Yes I put a step in the injector blocks as well, tapered the bore. Did the same on the exhaust side for laminar flow in the header primaries.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 07-12-2016, 01:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
My assumption was that SC or SC330 cams would run out of juice up top which would not fully utilize the port sizing.
Yes I put a step in the injector blocks as well, tapered the bore. Did the same on the exhaust side for laminar flow in the header primaries.
SC - yes - limiting. Sport SC use a more aggressive profile which gets you more top end without compromising bottom/mid-range.
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- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 07-12-2016, 01:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
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Stock SC/Carrera cams, 3.3 Turbo, EFI: 575whp.
Those cams aren't that limited.
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Old 07-14-2016, 01:01 PM
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3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
Stock SC/Carrera cams, 3.3 Turbo, EFI: 575whp.
Those cams aren't that limited.
I stand corrected.

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- 1969 911S
- 1980 911SC Targa
- 1979 930
Old 07-14-2016, 01:27 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Good to know the SC cams can hang at 575whp, however this build will not be EFI.
Cams aren't that big a deal to swap out so I might just leave the SC's in and see what we have. I really don't want to sacrifice any off-boost torque.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 07-14-2016, 06:29 PM
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If you're building it as a 3.3 the displacement, light clutch/flywheel, and SC cams will mask most of the losses on the bottom end, but no matter what you're shooting yourself in the foot with the 40+mm ports and pussy compression.
Old 07-14-2016, 07:46 PM
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3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr9146 View Post
... pussy compression.
This is the key


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- 1969 911S
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- 1979 930
Old 07-14-2016, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
This is the key


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That's what she said...
Old 07-14-2016, 07:50 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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It's an old school TURBO engine. Low compression supports higher boost. An 8.5:1 engine is not a Turbo engine, it's a mid 80's smog motor with a turbo thrown on and engine management doing all the work. The 3.0L 6.5:1 C/R early 930 engine, now that is a TRUE turbo engine.
The parameters of my build are set, I'm building an old school turbo engine and will tweak it to have street manners. We'll start with SC cams and work up as needed until that happy medium is found between the top end and the bottom end.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 07-14-2016, 09:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #36 (permalink)
3 restos WIP = psycho
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
It's an old school TURBO engine. Low compression supports higher boost. An 8.5:1 engine is not a Turbo engine, it's a mid 80's smog motor with a turbo thrown on and engine management doing all the work. The 3.0L 6.5:1 C/R early 930 engine, now that is a TRUE turbo engine.
The parameters of my build are set, I'm building an old school turbo engine and will tweak it to have street manners. We'll start with SC cams and work up as needed until that happy medium is found between the top end and the bottom end.
LOL - what was the CR of the 993TT again?
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- 1969 911S
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- 1979 930
Old 07-14-2016, 10:35 PM
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Mighty Meatlocker Turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
LOL - what was the CR of the 993TT again?
THe 993TT didn't run K-Jet/CIS, ya' bisch!!!
Old 07-15-2016, 12:41 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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The only thing old school about the 993TT was it being air cooled. I'm sure if Porsche could have pulled it off cheaply they would have water cooled the 993TT.
This build is old school. If I wanted modern engine management with high compression I'd turbocharge a new Corvette. Sure that would be great fun and smooth enough to drive to the grocery store on Sunday morning, but that's not what I'm after.
Think of it as a tribute to Cole's build, on steroids.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 07-15-2016, 04:59 AM
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Topic missed to the maxxxxx ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
It's an old school TURBO engine. Low compression supports higher boost. An 8.5:1 engine is not a Turbo engine, it's a mid 80's smog motor with a turbo thrown on and engine management doing all the work. The 3.0L 6.5:1 C/R early 930 engine, now that is a TRUE turbo engine.
The parameters of my build are set, I'm building an old school turbo engine and will tweak it to have street manners. We'll start with SC cams and work up as needed until that happy medium is found between the top end and the bottom end.

What was the topic of the thread ???

Pardon me - but we see unlimited wisdom involved as the Alabama engine wizard has spoken to us ... 🚀.

Thanks for such an enlightenment ... it makes my day ...

A true Turbo engine ? So exactly the opposite of what you where praying in the beginning of this thread ... like " no off boost torque " at all ???

In the beginning it sounds like you try to avoid exactly this ... now it makes you an " old school " engine builder ?

Lost direction my dear ?

By the way: static compression is perfect on CIS - there is nothing wrong with 8,5 : 1 !

As you are an CIS oracle also, you will know this for sure ...

Always good fun to read your posts !

Don't know what the concept is but the bigger ports fit into it well ... I'm sure ...

Why don't you send a mail to Chris - he is always happy to help as the knowledgeable and experienced engine builder he is !

Anyhow - let the oil burn black ... and shine on you crazy diamond ...


Yours in sport,

Dirk

President of the Eddy the eagle, Goofy and Brian Bodart fan club Germany / Takka Tukka Land

Old 07-15-2016, 05:12 AM
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