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With the thin '87 injector lines and the little plastic clips on them removed it's easy to carefully bend them up enough to stick the injectors in small plastic bottles and do an injector flow test in the car.

The aluminum 007 fuel head is maxed out for all around street use.
Some of the internal fuel feed passage ways to the 6 chambers look like they have been drilled out a little bigger and the round plenum chamber area or whatever it's called around the fuel feed area to the control plunger cylinder metering slits looks like it may have ground out a little bigger.
The machine or grinding marks in the aluminum casting in these areas is not nearly as smooth as the rest of the machining in the fuel head internals.
It looks like it could increase fuel volume flow through it when everything is flat out and fuel pumps and lines are all in good condition..

The 6 individual rubber diaphram to upper chamber orifice spring tension flow adjusters are adjusted so that if they are all tightened and maxed out completely the one that flows the least is then left wide open and the others that flow a little more are trimmed down to match it so when finished adjusting all 6 injectors spray the same amount of fuel.
With your headers and a couple Garret ball bearing turbos, a good full bay intercooler, 007 fuel head and perfect ignition timing you may get into the 500 Hp range with CIS and still have good drivability at slow speeds around town.

Old 02-26-2017, 10:13 PM
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You probably already know this but assuming those individual WBO2's will be used in a turbo - you have to compensate for the exhaust back-pressure because pressure skews the WBO2 in the wrong direction. The WBO2 will read richer than it actually is. So you need a pressure transducer and then a WBO2 controller that compensates for the pressure to get the proper lambda reading. AEM makes some equipment to do this. AEM p/n 30-2064 and 30-2340.
Old 02-27-2017, 04:57 AM
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Ok, what is F/A? I'm an A&P, and this isn't ringing a bell?
Old 02-27-2017, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted79 View Post
You probably already know this but assuming those individual WBO2's will be used in a turbo - you have to compensate for the exhaust back-pressure because pressure skews the WBO2 in the wrong direction. The WBO2 will read richer than it actually is. So you need a pressure transducer and then a WBO2 controller that compensates for the pressure to get the proper lambda reading. AEM makes some equipment to do this. AEM p/n 30-2064 and 30-2340.
Ugh, more equipment to buy.

http://aemelectronics.com/files/instructions/30-2064%20Exhaust%20Back%20Pressure%20Sensor%20Instal l%20Kit.pdf

Last edited by Tippy; 02-27-2017 at 07:29 AM..
Old 02-27-2017, 05:39 AM
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That bank F/A can difficult to monitor and expensive.
Wanted to offer the aircraft world has combined gauges for 6 cylinder air-cooled motors that displays 6 EGT plus one TIT in side by side bar form. It will switch to give you CHT in bar form comparison

Not F/A however these are the long established standards for air-cooled performance and monitoring as they have the same problems with air manifolds and MFI not taylored to each cylinder in factory builds.


If our old friend Bob Farmer would share his findings relating to 911 cooling distribution and his fixes this would be of great helping holding CHTs equal for maximum spark advancing.
Anyway with CHT on all 6 you'll have this to consider also.
Its pretty easy to tell what the AFR for a particular cylinder is based on observed EGT delta from peak EGT. The difficulty is knowing where peak EGT is. To tell that, you need to be able to adjust mixture slowly for a given load/throttle/temp until you see the EGT peak. Actually, its better to go from the lean side of peak and richen as that keeps you out of the danger zone more than leaning from the rich side.

I suppose you could take the same approach with 6 WBO2 sensors, although it sounds like way overkill to me. But what's the value?

I could see where that would help for trimming individual injectors to get that last ounce of power from an EFI setup, but I don't see the value for CIS, just setting equal flow would surely be accurate enough. I'm guessing that optimizing flow at one throttle setting will not be optimized for another.

Last edited by flightlead404; 02-27-2017 at 07:14 AM..
Old 02-27-2017, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
Ok, what is F/A? I'm an A&P, and this isn't ringing a bell?
I was using F/A to be fuel - air ratio. Typically what one is monitoring with O2 exhaust sensor.

This really is an old discussion relating to recognition that simply balancing the fuel flow per cylinder does not take into account the fact that all manifolds will display unequal air distribution.

Adding on recognition that to blueprint an air-cooled engine one needs to sample CHT because this describes knock resistance and thermal limitations. Turbo engines are ultimately limited by their fuel octane, pressure differentials and heat effects (heat rejection) to the engine system.

As an A/P you should read up on what is happening in Unlimited Air Racing with internal water injection (old stuff) but also newer use or external spray bar cooling. Fascinating stuff pointing toward potential usage on our old school air-cooled performance engines.
Old 02-27-2017, 07:31 AM
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I figured it was fuel/air, but wasn't sure. So used to seeing AFR.

I've learned a ton on individual cylinder tuning from some big tuners. There's a lot of signs and data you can analyze beyond EGT/AFR's for each cylinder.

Cool stuff for sure!
Old 02-27-2017, 08:29 AM
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itb's with individual temp sensors on each exhaust. I would think would work pretty well. you could monitor the afr after the turbo and then the temp sensors on each cyclinder should tell you if any are running hot. and since they can be connected outside the pipe no risk of anything breaking off and going through the turbo. you could balance the flow on each itb and tune each specific injector.
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Old 02-27-2017, 10:20 AM
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That's what I have always run. But the probe is always in the flame travel area of the header. Never had an issue. Purchased mine from aircraft company. You can tune and monitor each cylinder and set the alarm if any cylinder is more than 50 degree difference from any other cylinder.
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Old 02-27-2017, 12:49 PM
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The 6 port AFR setup is for just one purpose and that is to balance the AFR distribution. This is done at idle so there is no backpressure issue. If I do get interference I will simply remove the waste gates from each bank. Fuel distribution for each cylinder is affected by the asymmetrical intake manifold and must be compensated on the fuel end as you can't do anything about the air end (using that OEM manifold). This isn't typically a significant problem worth worrying about but does rob power by defaulting on the rich side to compensate for the lean cylinders.
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:03 AM
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Aircraft EGT, CHT monitor

Old 02-28-2017, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by copbait73 View Post
Aircraft EGT, CHT monitor

Good lord, come into this century lol. Look at whats available for experimental. GRT avionics EIS4000 is a decent tool and will take a lot of telemetry and convert to a serial output for analysis, displaying a dash, triggering alerts etc. It can handle 2 flow fuels (input and return and do the subtraction if needed) 4 EGT, 4 CHT, TIT, oil pressure, fuel pressure, oil temp......you could even whip up a short range radio and send the digital data for real time analysis in the pits if you wanted.
Old 02-28-2017, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
The 6 port AFR setup is for just one purpose and that is to balance the AFR distribution. This is done at idle so there is no backpressure issue. If I do get interference I will simply remove the waste gates from each bank. Fuel distribution for each cylinder is affected by the asymmetrical intake manifold and must be compensated on the fuel end as you can't do anything about the air end (using that OEM manifold). This isn't typically a significant problem worth worrying about but does rob power by defaulting on the rich side to compensate for the lean cylinders.
I'm curious Brian, I would have thought that optimizing for one throttle setting and load would not be optimized for others. In particular I would have guessed that optimizing at idle could be significantly different than at high power settings where the balance is most important. Do you not find this to be the case?
Old 02-28-2017, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by flightlead404 View Post
Good lord, come into this century lol. Look at whats available for experimental. GRT avionics EIS4000 is a decent tool and will take a lot of telemetry and convert to a serial output for analysis, displaying a dash, triggering alerts etc. It can handle 2 flow fuels (input and return and do the subtraction if needed) 4 EGT, 4 CHT, TIT, oil pressure, fuel pressure, oil temp......you could even whip up a short range radio and send the digital data for real time analysis in the pits if you wanted.
Relax techno boy can yours show you real time bar form comparison of all 6 CHT or EGT plus TIT at a glance while you are grabbing gears and still be picked up on eBay for $300?
One just closed resterday evening for $305. Doesn't log, doesn't need to because Brian's brain is capable of doing that.

Last edited by copbait73; 02-28-2017 at 08:57 PM..
Old 02-28-2017, 06:38 PM
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I would have thought that optimizing for one throttle setting and load would not be optimized for others
I'll vary the RPM and hold it to get a stable reading. The flow will be measured separately and collected for all 6 cylinders at full throttle, which is how fuel distributors are tested after rebuild. The output of the lean cylinders will be greater than that of the rich cylinders, and that % needs to correlate with the AFR variance. This doesn't have to be exact, anything done at all is a plus. I already know which cylinders typically run leaner and that % so have a good starting place. Here is your hint:

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Old 02-28-2017, 08:42 PM
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Yeah, certainly looks like that funky pancake manifold is ramming into the center intakes.
Old 02-28-2017, 09:14 PM
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Relax techno boy can yours show you real time bar form comparison of all 6 CHT or EGT plus TIT at a glance while you are grabbing gears and still be picked up on eBay for $300?
One just closed resterday evening for $305. Doesn't log, doesn't need to because Brian's brain is capable of doing that.
'
I think the 6 cyl setup is around 1,200 with most sensor. Yes, can display bar graphs, but those aren't that much use for diagnostics, particularly if you are driving and looking at the same time. Logging and displaying the data in graph format over time is much more useful.
Old 03-01-2017, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
I'll vary the RPM and hold it to get a stable reading. The flow will be measured separately and collected for all 6 cylinders at full throttle, which is how fuel distributors are tested after rebuild. The output of the lean cylinders will be greater than that of the rich cylinders, and that % needs to correlate with the AFR variance. This doesn't have to be exact, anything done at all is a plus. I already know which cylinders typically run leaner and that % so have a good starting place. Here is your hint:

Nice lol. I took photographs of the exhaust ports/backs of the valves before I got your headers for that purpose. Haven't done anything with the info yet of course
Old 03-01-2017, 03:06 PM
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'
I think the 6 cyl setup is around 1,200 with most sensor. Yes, can display bar graphs, but those aren't that much use for diagnostics, particularly if you are driving and looking at the same time. Logging and displaying the data in graph format over time is much more useful.
The Brian I know is not a logging and displaying kinda guy
Old 03-01-2017, 06:07 PM
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No, for what I want to do logging has no use. All I need are stable AFR readings so I can adjust the flow on the lean cylinders until they all 6 match. After that the only reading I will watch is the single AFR from the muffler. It is nice to log that one as you cannot watch any gages while the tires are trying to rip you off the highway.

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Old 03-01-2017, 07:14 PM
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