Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
SBK930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Australia / Straya
Posts: 414
Garage
Can I rebuild a turbo?

That is the question.
I am fairly good with pulling things apart and then putting them back together. What I would like to know is how difficult would it be to put a rebuild kit through a KKK K27 turbo.
The reason for this is that from what I can understand is a seal has let go resulting in oil being dumped into the engine, there is no noise from the turbo to indicate anything terrible has let go and no noise from the engine, just clouds of burning oil.
Is this possible or do I need to be a rocket scientist?

Old 08-23-2016, 10:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Turbonut
 
Raceboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Estonia, Europe
Posts: 1,165
Garage
It is possible, I have done it several times. But there are few things to notice. First thing is that you need to mark the position of the compressor wheel relative to the shaft (make a small scratch or something, not with pen, it will be washed out!).
And it will be visible when removing the compressor housing whether there is even point going any further: if the comp wheel has touched the housing, no point going further.

If wheel seems fine, remove the wheel and then you can access the backplate bolts etc. I don't have repair guide for KKK (I have done several Holsets and Schwitzers), but it would be useful so you can check the factory tolerances for rear seal groove wear limits etc.

Here are few links you might find useful:

Repair guide for KKK:
KKK Turbo rebuild instructions - anyone have them? - Rennlist Discussion Forums

Parts diagram:
http://www.vaglinks.com/docs/catalogues/melett.com_kkkcatalog.pdf

And here's some useful information also:

Help rebuilding a stock k27 turbo
__________________
'83 924 (2.6 16v Turbo, 530hp),'67 911 hot-rod /2.4S, '78 924 Carrera GT project (2.0 turbo 340 hp), '84 928 S Euro, '90 944 S2 Cabriolet
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
Old 08-23-2016, 11:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
SBK930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Australia / Straya
Posts: 414
Garage
That's great so much information, I have just breezed over it all and will take some time to read it all carefully before taking any further steps. Initial concern is the comment on the quality of the rebuild kits from eBay.
Thanks heap Raceboy.
Old 08-24-2016, 12:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
T77911S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MYR S.C.
Posts: 13,155
i did mine too but it did not work out. note: I more or less did it just because I wanted to try it.
the reason it did not work is because the bearing kit I got, no it was not an ebay kit, did not really fit properly. there was actually more shaft play with the new bearings and it puked oil.

the other thing is cleaning the body. mine had a lot of coking inside and cleaning it was a real pain.
I had durabuilt rebuild mine and even with a new shaft the price was not bad.

even though mine did not work I am still glad I did it.
__________________
86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 08-24-2016, 05:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: sunny buffalo
Posts: 579
I would advise against a home rebuild. Our turbos are very precise high speed with little or no room for error. "Scratching" the parts could lead to premature failure due to the loads imposed. Surely there are reputable shops around who specialize in turbo repair.
Old 08-24-2016, 07:25 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,844
Quote:
Originally Posted by 930cabman View Post
I would advise against a home rebuild. Our turbos are very precise high speed with little or no room for error. "Scratching" the parts could lead to premature failure due to the loads imposed. Surely there are reputable shops around who specialize in turbo repair.
Turbo rebuild businesses love you!! There's is nothing wrong with rebuilding at home. A scratch will not destroy them. If that was the case, nicked wheels would explode easily. I've been around a lot of turbos with severely nicked blades that were fine. Big drag racers don't even use ait filters because nothing can handle the airflow without restriction and inject dirt like a vacuum cleaner.

As said, scribe a tiny index line and torque back to spec.

Last edited by Tippy; 08-24-2016 at 08:26 AM..
Old 08-24-2016, 07:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
Turbonut
 
Raceboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Estonia, Europe
Posts: 1,165
Garage
Old agricultural 3LDZ or K27 is high speed precision device?

I would barely call ball-bearing a precision device, but not a regular journal bearing turbo.

If you don't feel comfortable doing it, fine. But people do even crazier things, like surgeons for example who operate inside human body! without any tight tolerances, just huge knowledge base, common sense, and steady mind!


Quote:
Originally Posted by 930cabman View Post
I would advise against a home rebuild. Our turbos are very precise high speed with little or no room for error. "Scratching" the parts could lead to premature failure due to the loads imposed. Surely there are reputable shops around who specialize in turbo repair.
__________________
'83 924 (2.6 16v Turbo, 530hp),'67 911 hot-rod /2.4S, '78 924 Carrera GT project (2.0 turbo 340 hp), '84 928 S Euro, '90 944 S2 Cabriolet
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
Old 08-24-2016, 01:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: sunny buffalo
Posts: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raceboy View Post
Old agricultural 3LDZ or K27 is high speed precision device?

I would barely call ball-bearing a precision device, but not a regular journal bearing turbo.

If you don't feel comfortable doing it, fine. But people do even crazier things, like surgeons for example who operate inside human body! without any tight tolerances, just huge knowledge base, common sense, and steady mind!

I suppose why doctors and lawyers practice their trades.

The turbine wheels spin at very high speeds, not sure but I'll bet over 50k rpm

How does a diy guy balance the rebuilt turbo?

Last edited by 930cabman; 08-24-2016 at 05:04 PM..
Old 08-24-2016, 05:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mark houghton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Central Washington State
Posts: 3,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by 930cabman View Post

How does a diy guy balance the rebuilt turbo?

You don't balance it at home. That's why presuming that your in-need- of -rebuild turbo is still balanced and just needs seals and thrust plates, etc., it's important to reinstall exactly in the same position on the shaft. A lot of folks here will say you're a fool to attempt, but then I've been called a fool before so WTF.

I rebuilt a K27 7200 I bought used "just because". Followed my own advice, and have yet to install and see if it hooks 'em up or goes ballistic.

Also, don't forget to Loctite the nut. If that puppy spins off at a quadzillion rpms, your turbo is FUBAR.
__________________
Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.
Old 08-24-2016, 05:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,040
Garage
If the failure is due to blown seals then repair is within the normal realm of DIY.
If the failure is due to bearing damage or turbine wheel damage it may be best to let the experts handle it.
Worst case failure mode is the impeller explodes at 80,000rpm and sends shrapnel into your intercooler, muffler, and oil system. Not common but it can happen.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 08-24-2016, 07:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Turbonut
 
Raceboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Estonia, Europe
Posts: 1,165
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
If the failure is due to blown seals then repair is within the normal realm of DIY.
If the failure is due to bearing damage or turbine wheel damage it may be best to let the experts handle it.
+1.

That's why I wrote in my post that if impeller has not touched the housing etc, proceed. Otherwise no point.
__________________
'83 924 (2.6 16v Turbo, 530hp),'67 911 hot-rod /2.4S, '78 924 Carrera GT project (2.0 turbo 340 hp), '84 928 S Euro, '90 944 S2 Cabriolet
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
Old 08-24-2016, 11:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,844
My old 60-1 had wheel contact on both sides, chipped vanes, and many, many nicks. This was due to a high flow K&N style filter mated right to the inlet ingesting all the road debris and tire kick up. It never flew apart. I pushed it to 1.2 bar for years. It was clearly spinning near max RPM as it was winded at high RPM's.

I'd imagine a triple-K can take more abuse than my old Turbonetics?
Old 08-25-2016, 04:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,040
Garage
I've seen turbine wheels that look like they have been sandblasted. Those are not necessarily the dangerous ones, it's when the bearings go out and shaft play becomes so bad that the wheel can touch the housing by bouncing around that can cause catastrophic failure.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 08-25-2016, 04:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
lite75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham WA
Posts: 924
Garage
and if you lost your mark or changing out your compressor wheel...
» Turbo Balancing
__________________
75 930, 76 930, 83 SC EFI turbo
Old 08-25-2016, 09:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
T77911S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MYR S.C.
Posts: 13,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by lite75 View Post
and if you lost your mark or changing out your compressor wheel...
» Turbo Balancing
its not a big deal if you do.
just mount the turbo on the exhaust and then line the body up to fit the oil line and then line up the turbo inlet side to line up to the IC,.

I lost the mark on mine and that is what I did. its no big deal and in fact it may fit better.

inspect the inside of the body, that needs to be VERY clean.

I have noticed that my bumper and rear fender are cooler after the rebuild. I think due to the fact that the caked on oil has been removed from the body allowing it to cool better.
__________________
86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 08-25-2016, 11:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Conneticut
Posts: 5,102
can someone post who rebuilds the early 3ldz ones still
Old 08-27-2016, 05:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,417
I rebuilt my original K26 but it was a long time ago when you could get a quality kit. Half the problem these days on not only turbos but also engines is junk replacement parts that don't meet OEM specs. I've had good luck with Midwestturboconnection for quality kits. I've rebuilt several Holsets with their kits and haven't had a problem. Re. balancing, as others have said, I mark the compressor hub and shaft and then reassemble the rotating assembly with the marks but then have the rotating assembly balanced at a turbo shop just to make sure before I put it into the housing.
Old 08-27-2016, 06:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Mighty Meatlocker Turbo
 
Rawknees'Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: North TexASS
Posts: 12,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by dporsche74 View Post
can someone post who rebuilds the early 3ldz ones still
Durabilt does them. I don't have any personal experience with them, but many here do - have been in business a long time and have a great reputation.

Durabilt Turbo - Turbo Rebuilding | Bradley, IL
Old 08-27-2016, 06:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mark houghton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Central Washington State
Posts: 3,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted79 View Post
but then have the rotating assembly balanced at a turbo shop just to make sure before I put it into the housing.
That certainly is the best approach, but you're missing the point of this thread. This is DIY and for people that live in the middle of butt-crack-nowhere with absolutely no access to some outfit that can balance your assembly, well.....? We just take our chances. We tell ourselves"shoot, I can slap new parts into that bad dog, no problemo!". Anyone can do that, but keeping the turbo and compressor wheels exacta-freaking-mente where there were originally is the only way we can only hope the balance is still intact. Ya light her up, ya hope for the best, and she may or may not go balistic and throw metal filings all over the place.
__________________
Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.
Old 08-27-2016, 02:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,289
Durabilt-Turbo.com - www.durabilt-turbo.com
TurbosDirect.Com Web Site - Home

Old 08-27-2016, 05:34 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:14 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.