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Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
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You're experiencing lean tip-in, then the stall I'd imagine.

5 seconds is probably the log time limit. That's a lot of data. It's measuring in the milliseconds.
Old 07-06-2017, 07:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #281 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
You're experiencing lean tip-in...
If there be anybody I'd listen to about "tip-in", it be TIP-py! 😂
Old 07-06-2017, 07:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #282 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icemann427 View Post
If there be anybody I'd listen to about "tip-in", it be TIP-py! 😂
😂 😂 😂 😂

I did have a long bout of lean tip-in issues until a fellow Pelicanite gave me some top secret, crypto strategies that worked.

ITB's are the hardest hands down.
Old 07-06-2017, 08:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #283 (permalink)
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What do I look at first? I am going to try a different laptop tonight. What variables
Should I data log? I was also thinking of purchasing Megalogviewer.
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1988 Porsche 930 Targa - 3.4L Twin Plug Motor, DC 13 Cams, Supertec Head Studs, ARP Rod Bolts, Port and Polished Heads, Garretson Andial Intercooler, GSX 61 BB Stage 5Turbo, Tial F46 WG .8 Bar Spring, PowerHaus Headers, PowerHaus Dual Tip Muffler, MS3 Pro EFI conversion, 57lbs. Cobra Injectors, Center Force Stage 2 Clutch , Rebuilt 4 Speed with LSD.
Old 07-07-2017, 04:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #284 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Oh yes, you need MLV (MegaLogViewer)!!!

It'll show what's happening right when it oscillates and/or dies.

You select off on 3 different feedback line graphs and see what is going awry to work from there.
Old 07-07-2017, 05:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #285 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
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MLV will also tune the engine while the laptop is not even connected.

All you do is, drive your car for a good 30 minute trip making sure you cover the entire usable map area like high RPM/low loads and low RPM/high loads and all in between, in 1 massive datalog.

Then, you open MLV, and allow it to optimize your tune.

Save the tune it suggests and load it back to the ECU.

Drive it again and you'll be amazed how good it runs.

Do this a few times, and it'll really clean up your fuel map nicely.
Old 07-07-2017, 05:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #286 (permalink)
 
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Thanks Tippy, Any suggestions on fuel tip in?
The car will actually stall if I am sitting idling and I stab the the gas. Sometimes it recovers sometimes not.
Old 07-07-2017, 06:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #287 (permalink)
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I haven't been following this close but does MS have an fuel accel value?
Have you tried adjusting that?
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Old 07-07-2017, 07:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #288 (permalink)
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I currently have it turned off. I have read that it is essential to have VE map dialed in before attempting to adjust the accel settings

Last edited by jpilcher; 07-07-2017 at 08:15 AM..
Old 07-07-2017, 07:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #289 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjf911 View Post
3-wire idle valve should be a PWM controlled valve, not on/off.
Correct. It is a PWM valve and should not be treated like a Fast Idle valve.
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:46 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #290 (permalink)
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John,

What size injectors are you running? The Require Fuel number and the injector size in the Engine and Sequential settings page don't look correct to me. If you are still running 57lb/hr the Required fuel would be 6.2. 57lb/hr x 10.5cc/min = 598cc/min. If you are running something bigger then Required Fuel would < 6.2.
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Old 07-07-2017, 09:17 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #291 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '76 911S 3.0 View Post
Correct. It is a PWM valve and should not be treated like a Fast Idle valve.
That's not true.

When using a resistor to ground on the opposite ICV coil side of the FIdle side, this enables a stepper type of action similar to PWM.

The FIdle output gives a stepped output voltage to play "tug o' war" with the ICV coils to control the valve opening and closing.

I'm probably wording funky, but you get my drift... 😂

Works pretty well.
Old 07-07-2017, 09:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #292 (permalink)
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John,

Ops, I just noticed your engine is 3.4 liter, so the Required fuel of 6.2 I posted is incorrect, it should be 6.4.
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1977 930 Slant, MS3 EFI, Carrera intake, Twin plug, Powerhaus headers, Magnaflow muffler, Garretson intercooler, GTX3071R
Old 07-07-2017, 09:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #293 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpilcher View Post
I currently have it turned off. I have read that it is essential to have VE map dialed in before attempting to adjust the accel settings
Without AE, FORGET about trying to rev it. It will lean out instantly and stutter or die.
Old 07-07-2017, 09:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #294 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpilcher View Post
Thanks Tippy, Any suggestions on fuel tip in?
The car will actually stall if I am sitting idling and I stab the the gas. Sometimes it recovers sometimes not.
Yes. Fatten the cells in the high load range up to say, 1200 RPM, so when you goose throttle, the corresponding higher fuel numbers will add fuel like a step up pump.
Old 07-07-2017, 09:25 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #295 (permalink)
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Thanks guys I will give these things a try. Should I turn AE on? If so what settings should I adjust to?
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1988 Porsche 930 Targa - 3.4L Twin Plug Motor, DC 13 Cams, Supertec Head Studs, ARP Rod Bolts, Port and Polished Heads, Garretson Andial Intercooler, GSX 61 BB Stage 5Turbo, Tial F46 WG .8 Bar Spring, PowerHaus Headers, PowerHaus Dual Tip Muffler, MS3 Pro EFI conversion, 57lbs. Cobra Injectors, Center Force Stage 2 Clutch , Rebuilt 4 Speed with LSD.
Old 07-07-2017, 09:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #296 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpilcher View Post
Thanks guys I will give these things a try. Should I turn AE on? If so what settings should I adjust to?
Just experiment.

There's no one-size-fits-all in this regard.

It'll be fun to try different things.

Try anything to see if it makes an improvement. Add some more, and see what happens. Rinse and repeat.
Old 07-07-2017, 12:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #297 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
That's not true.

When using a resistor to ground on the opposite ICV coil side of the FIdle side, this enables a stepper type of action similar to PWM.

The FIdle output gives a stepped output voltage to play "tug o' war" with the ICV coils to control the valve opening and closing.

I'm probably wording funky, but you get my drift... 😂

Works pretty well.
I get what you're saying, essentially you are turning it into a 2 wire valve wiring it up that way...I could see how that would work.
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1976 911S Signature Edition
3.2SSt (JE 98mm 9.5:1 pistons, 964 Cams, ARP Rod Bolts, Big Port SC Heads, 3.2 Carrera Manifold, ID725's, B&B Headers, Tial 44mm, TS RacePort, BW S360, AEM Infinity 506, E85)
Old 07-07-2017, 01:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #298 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Yeah, it works great!

Genius concept someone thought up!
Old 07-07-2017, 01:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #299 (permalink)
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Hi All

Just want to give a big shout out to Jerry. He had a look at my timing map and made some recommendations. I had a little time after work to play with the tuning. I added some additional fuel in the bins just above idle, this seems to have had a good effect. There is definitely a lean spike happening. I have also added some timing in the bins below the idle bins. This also seems to have helped. Car only stalled once during the tuning sessions this afternoon.

Has anyone experimented with installing a welding tip in the map sensor line to stabilize signal going to map sensor?

Thanks again Tippy
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1988 Porsche 930 Targa - 3.4L Twin Plug Motor, DC 13 Cams, Supertec Head Studs, ARP Rod Bolts, Port and Polished Heads, Garretson Andial Intercooler, GSX 61 BB Stage 5Turbo, Tial F46 WG .8 Bar Spring, PowerHaus Headers, PowerHaus Dual Tip Muffler, MS3 Pro EFI conversion, 57lbs. Cobra Injectors, Center Force Stage 2 Clutch , Rebuilt 4 Speed with LSD.
Old 07-07-2017, 03:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #300 (permalink)
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