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MS3 Pro Conversion

Just wondered how many are using MS3 Pro? What features attracted you to MS3 Pro? Thinking of changing my current SDS EFI system. The SDS system is great for full out race applications, but lacks the refinement for smooth idle and cruise.

My goal would be to go full sequential for both fuel and ignition. I was planning on utilizing Honda COPs. I also want to incorporate electronic boost control.
I was also thinking of upgrading the injectors to 80 lbs. High Z Injectors. Horsepower goals to the wheels 475 hp.

I plan on fully documenting my conversion, in hopes that it will help someone else in the future.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Regards

John
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1988 Porsche 930 Targa - 3.4L Twin Plug Motor, DC 13 Cams, Supertec Head Studs, ARP Rod Bolts, Port and Polished Heads, Garretson Andial Intercooler, GSX 61 BB Stage 5Turbo, Tial F46 WG .8 Bar Spring, PowerHaus Headers, PowerHaus Dual Tip Muffler, MS3 Pro EFI conversion, 57lbs. Cobra Injectors, Center Force Stage 2 Clutch , Rebuilt 4 Speed with LSD.
Old 11-23-2016, 07:02 PM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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If I were to do it again, I'd hands down do Pro. My understanding is, is the input circuitry is far less susceptible to noise than previous gens and the support is second to none.
Old 11-23-2016, 07:46 PM
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Turbofrog
 
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I'm going Pro this winter. Just routed the VR line separately but likely the first start will be fueling only for easier troubleshooting. I'm installing the ecu and relay/ground_bars/fuseholder under the passenger seat for easier access (just pop the front side_bolts and tilt)

Pro is nicely documented and packed so it makes installing easier. The wires are printed for what they are and I bought the long harness so less connections hopefully. Grounds are the most important thing and I will use a thick gauge wire from starter bolt to common ground bolt/bar under the pass seat. Sensors ground to a named PRO wire. One relay AND separate_12V for PRO and fuel pumps relayed separately with switches on dash.

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79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs
Old 11-23-2016, 09:09 PM
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John, I look forward to reading your write up on the conversion, I plan to do the same but probably not this winter, unfortunately.
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Cheers, Chris
1975 Carrera / 965 tribute w/ 1989 3.3 turbo 8.5:1, K27 7200, 964 cams, euro CIS, TEC1 dual plug, rarlyL8 headers & outlaw pipe. 915/68 trans, kevlar clutch and lightweight pressure plate.
Old 11-24-2016, 04:22 AM
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I am running a microsquirt V3, which is basically the same as MS2, and have been very happy with it. It has quite a few features, but the biggest limiting factor is its spark outputs, and it will only do batch fuel injection with a 6 cylinder, and wasted spark. I even run knock detection, and Flex fuel, and am in the process of doing boost control also. I have had an issue with a hesitation around 2800RPM, and i think it may be ground related, but have not had a chance to diagnose it.

I would love to step up to the MS3 Pro, that way i could run coil on plug, sequential fuel injection.
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1979 911SC widebody conversion. 3.1 engine, 3.2 liter heads, carrera intake, Microsquirt V3 ECU, K27 7200 High flow turbo, Tial F41 wastegate, Ford EDIS. .7 bar. 402hp 360tq
Old 11-24-2016, 06:44 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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There is one unclear thing in the manual and its the grounding. Some paragraphs say block is best and one says battery negative is best and block ok?
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************************************************** *******************************
79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs
Old 11-24-2016, 07:42 AM
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Ground to the battery

Ground to the battery

Ground to the battery

Ground to the battery

Ground to the battery

Ground to the battery
Old 11-24-2016, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottrx7tt View Post
I am running a microsquirt V3, which is basically the same as MS2, and have been very happy with it. It has quite a few features, but the biggest limiting factor is its spark outputs, and it will only do batch fuel injection with a 6 cylinder, and wasted spark. I even run knock detection, and Flex fuel, and am in the process of doing boost control also. I have had an issue with a hesitation around 2800RPM, and i think it may be ground related, but have not had a chance to diagnose it.

I would love to step up to the MS3 Pro, that way i could run coil on plug, sequential fuel injection.
I have the exact same hesitation. I know I am not grounding to the battery and think I may have a go at that to see if it makes a difference. Also a local Porsche specialist has said they may help with with the issue and has a few idea's. I'll PM you the info and results as and when.
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Old 11-24-2016, 10:30 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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Why do they write this on their manual on chapter 4 wiring:
Quote:
Usually the biggest source of electrical noise isnít RFI or other radio noise - itís poor grounding or having noise injected into the power wires by another device. The MS3-Pro needs to be grounded to the engine block or cylinder head if at all possible; the battery negative terminal is often an acceptable second choice. We do not recommend grounding the MS3-Pro to the chassis or sheet metal
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************************************************** *******************************
79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs
Old 11-24-2016, 10:45 AM
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The ms3pro is great. It makes it so easy to wire and set up. My car started up first try after the conversion. Mine is grounded to the block and has been working great.

BTW, if anybody is thinking about buying one let me know as I have an account with them and can get you a better price. Ive sold a few on here already.
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'86 930 Guards Red - EFI MS3Pro, 80lb inj, 3.4, GT35R, Tial 46, Bosch 044, B&B Headers, 3.2 carrera manifold, Turbokraft Full bay IC
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Last edited by dos531; 11-24-2016 at 10:47 AM..
Old 11-24-2016, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
Why do they write this on their manual on chapter 4 wiring:
I know of a professional installer/tuner and EMS trainer/instructor who says he cures most installs by moving the grounds from block to battery.

This guy has a serious resume, even consulting with OEM's.

He's questioned MegaSquirt heavily to change the ground documentation.
Old 11-24-2016, 02:17 PM
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Smurfbus, I like your location for the Ms3 Pro Unit, think I will do the same. I currently have the SDS unit mounted to rear seat foot board.

Has anyone used a bulkhead connector like the one shown on the diyautotune site?
https://www.diyautotune.com/product/weather-pack-22-position-bulkhead-connector-kit/

I was wondering if the VR Pickup wire would work with this type of connector? Does the VR wire need to be wired directly to MS3 Unit? Is it a shielded wire?
Same question for the cam pickup wire?

Another question, what seems to be most popular sequential ignition setup, COP or LS Coil Near Plug? If COP what coils are being used?

I will have lot's of questions going forward, just want to thank you guys in advance.

BTW Happy Thanksgiving!

Regards

John
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1988 Porsche 930 Targa - 3.4L Twin Plug Motor, DC 13 Cams, Supertec Head Studs, ARP Rod Bolts, Port and Polished Heads, Garretson Andial Intercooler, GSX 61 BB Stage 5Turbo, Tial F46 WG .8 Bar Spring, PowerHaus Headers, PowerHaus Dual Tip Muffler, MS3 Pro EFI conversion, 57lbs. Cobra Injectors, Center Force Stage 2 Clutch , Rebuilt 4 Speed with LSD.

Last edited by jpilcher; 11-24-2016 at 04:30 PM..
Old 11-24-2016, 04:03 PM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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LS2 truck coils (CNP) are the most cracking, but "xbmwguy" does fine with COP.

To me, it's finding:

1. Coils that have actual documentation regarding dwell times - very important!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. Fit the 911 head decent
Old 11-24-2016, 04:59 PM
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One more item.

I have a killer deal going on a SDS EFI system. System is for Twin Plug Setup.
Includes EM5 Unit c/w Datalog function. Programmer, 6 DIS coils, 12 wire Clewitt set, Rich/Lean Tuning knob, Crank Sensor, Pulley backing plate c/w reference magnets, complete wiring harness, and manual. System is very easy to tune.

Does not include the crank pulley, just the backing plate with the magnets.
I could throw in pulley for extra cost.

I can also provide 55 lb Hi Z injectors for extra cost.

Simple Digital System EM-5
SDS EM-5: data





If interested please shoot me a PM.
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1988 Porsche 930 Targa - 3.4L Twin Plug Motor, DC 13 Cams, Supertec Head Studs, ARP Rod Bolts, Port and Polished Heads, Garretson Andial Intercooler, GSX 61 BB Stage 5Turbo, Tial F46 WG .8 Bar Spring, PowerHaus Headers, PowerHaus Dual Tip Muffler, MS3 Pro EFI conversion, 57lbs. Cobra Injectors, Center Force Stage 2 Clutch , Rebuilt 4 Speed with LSD.

Last edited by jpilcher; 11-24-2016 at 05:15 PM..
Old 11-24-2016, 05:12 PM
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Turbofrog
 
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Pro has a shielded two wire lead for VR sensor and it its best practise to be wired separately to avoid Starting problems. From my ecu position the wire reached just behind the passenger rearlight housing where I had my VR sensor wire (a cutted connector from my spare audi harness). So I routed the VR line under the rear lid latch to make sure it was far away from any ignition/pump/injector wires. I used chrink tube and alu wire shield over the wires near turbo/exhaust. I drilled a hole in the corner of the passenger back (level with trunk sideline) seat so there were no extra bends in the line to make it reach.

I will use that seat cradle for all the ecu related stuff and relay/ground/12V bars
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79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs

Last edited by smurfbus; 11-24-2016 at 10:25 PM..
Old 11-24-2016, 09:14 PM
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Thanks Smurfbus.
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1988 Porsche 930 Targa - 3.4L Twin Plug Motor, DC 13 Cams, Supertec Head Studs, ARP Rod Bolts, Port and Polished Heads, Garretson Andial Intercooler, GSX 61 BB Stage 5Turbo, Tial F46 WG .8 Bar Spring, PowerHaus Headers, PowerHaus Dual Tip Muffler, MS3 Pro EFI conversion, 57lbs. Cobra Injectors, Center Force Stage 2 Clutch , Rebuilt 4 Speed with LSD.
Old 11-25-2016, 09:23 AM
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What coils are most popular with MS3 Pro? Found lots of Honda COPs at local Upull
$11.00 each, comes complete with connector.
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1988 Porsche 930 Targa - 3.4L Twin Plug Motor, DC 13 Cams, Supertec Head Studs, ARP Rod Bolts, Port and Polished Heads, Garretson Andial Intercooler, GSX 61 BB Stage 5Turbo, Tial F46 WG .8 Bar Spring, PowerHaus Headers, PowerHaus Dual Tip Muffler, MS3 Pro EFI conversion, 57lbs. Cobra Injectors, Center Force Stage 2 Clutch , Rebuilt 4 Speed with LSD.
Old 11-26-2016, 01:10 PM
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MS3 Pro has been ordered from Dos531, great price, Thanks Derek.
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1988 Porsche 930 Targa - 3.4L Twin Plug Motor, DC 13 Cams, Supertec Head Studs, ARP Rod Bolts, Port and Polished Heads, Garretson Andial Intercooler, GSX 61 BB Stage 5Turbo, Tial F46 WG .8 Bar Spring, PowerHaus Headers, PowerHaus Dual Tip Muffler, MS3 Pro EFI conversion, 57lbs. Cobra Injectors, Center Force Stage 2 Clutch , Rebuilt 4 Speed with LSD.
Old 11-26-2016, 02:01 PM
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What is a good cam sensor to use for full sequential?
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1988 Porsche 930 Targa - 3.4L Twin Plug Motor, DC 13 Cams, Supertec Head Studs, ARP Rod Bolts, Port and Polished Heads, Garretson Andial Intercooler, GSX 61 BB Stage 5Turbo, Tial F46 WG .8 Bar Spring, PowerHaus Headers, PowerHaus Dual Tip Muffler, MS3 Pro EFI conversion, 57lbs. Cobra Injectors, Center Force Stage 2 Clutch , Rebuilt 4 Speed with LSD.
Old 11-26-2016, 02:18 PM
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I strongly recommend the hamlin 55505 series. It can be ordered with the internal bias resistor which is needed for the cam input for ms3pro
Old 11-27-2016, 07:07 AM
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