Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Turbo Powered Snow Blower
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA .... Galveston, TX
Posts: 2,944
Garage
Isn't TexAzz one of those great non emissions monitoring states? Why isn't that Fridigaire model 930 running EFI?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Derrick
Old 12-31-2016, 10:19 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
full quack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 1,182
Send a message via Yahoo to full quack
Ok guys riddle me this...my car is an '84 Euro model...my engine compartment fuse/relay panel does not look like Ronnies.
I have a red relay #21164-12volt 91161510801 where his yellow relay is, and that is how it's been since I bought the car in 2005, and I've put 68K miles on the car this way.
His panel has a black relay where I have a blank hole in the sheet metal [no socket].
His has a blank hole in the sheet metal to the left of the yellow relay spot, I have no such hole, Although I do have a second blank hole in front and to the left, of where Ronnies yellow relay sits.

My pumps only work with the key on and the engine either cranking or running, and if I stall the car the pumps stop, so there is no safety issue. I can also get the pumps to turn on if I have the key on and I depress the plunger on the fuel head.

So I guess I must ask...is a euro model completely different than Ronnies US model?

Mark

Last edited by full quack; 12-31-2016 at 03:53 PM..
Old 12-31-2016, 03:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,281
Mine runs on a regular relay as in the front compartment - and it is a type 68, '87 engine. I know we have had this discussion before, but it seems later (post '87?) engines need the yellow relay? It is just an earth relay for the pumps as stated , basically just same function as front relays. Except the yellow one has a timer delay system? But surely a spare front relay should get it going in a pinch - eg from Air con relay or similar? That is what I am using, all the time.
Regards
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 01-02-2017, 05:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
16Volt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 987
My car is an 86 and uses the yellow relay for reference.
__________________
- 86 Porsche 930 - Mr.Hyde
- 86 BMW 635CSi - Dr.Jeykell
- 2006 Infiniti M45 Sport
https://medium.com/@crashingdoor
Old 01-04-2017, 08:26 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Secret lair deep underground
Posts: 891
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16Volt View Post
My car is an 86 and uses the yellow relay for reference.
Mine also.

I'm using the delayed action feature to drive the microsquirt because I discovered that the power momentarily shuts off between "crank" and "run" key positions.

This occurs for all devices on the +12v including WUR, fuel pumps etc.

People have surmised that this delayed action was to somehow depressurize fuel lines, or ensure there was no unburnt fuel in cylinders, or other things. I always questioned that, I don't know of any other car that does it, certainly none I've owned.

Now playing with the MS has led me to think that possibly the reason is to ensure power is maintained to the CDI unit during the transition from crank to run.
Old 01-04-2017, 12:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
Mighty Meatlocker Turbo
 
Rawknees'Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: North TexASS
Posts: 10,710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
Ditto.

He already has bahl shrankin' AC, time for some EFI
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1979-930 View Post
Isn't TexAzz one of those great non emissions monitoring states? Why isn't that Fridigaire model 930 running EFI?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
At some point, bubs, at soooommmmmeeeeee point (different than the "point" that you two choads are most familiar with! ).


Flight, the ignition delay shutoff action is not controlled by the yellow relay - it is controlled by the delay relay that is a small, silver metal box (replacements are black plastic) that is on the engine compartment relay panel next to the large box that is part of the rear window defrost circuit.

As far as ignition shutting off momentarily between crank and run, and that having anything to do with the yellow relay, very interesting, as this is the first I've heard of that. I do know that if the yellow relay is working properly, it is part of the overboost circuit, it is part of the circuit that keeps the fuel pumps from running if air is not passing over the air metering arm/disc, and it allows the fuel pumps to energize very briefly (less than one second) when the key is turned to the run position (prior to actual starter movement).

Last edited by Rawknees'Turbo; 01-04-2017 at 01:06 PM..
Old 01-04-2017, 12:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Secret lair deep underground
Posts: 891
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
At some point, bubs, at soooommmmmeeeeee point (different than the "point" that you two choads are most familiar with! ).


Flight, the ignition delay shutoff action is not controlled by the yellow relay - it is controlled by the delay relay that is a small, silver metal box (replacements are black plastic) that is on the engine compartment relay panel next to the large box that is part of the rear window defrost circuit.
Yes, you're right. I've just been fooling with that thing, fingers moving faster than brain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
As far as ignition shutting off momentarily between crank and run, and that having anything to do with the yellow relay, very interesting, as this is the first I've heard of that. I do know that if the yellow relay is working properly, it is part of the overboost circuit, it is part of the circuit that keeps the fuel pumps from running if air is not passing over the air metering arm/disc, and it allows the fuel pumps to energize very briefly (less than one second) when the key is turned to the run position (prior to actual starter movement).
I meant the delayed action relay not the yellow relay. Somehow I conflated the two in my reply.

To be clear, its the power shutting off to the switched buss momentarily as the key moves from the "crank" to the "run" position. I have confirmed this with a 'scope as well as practical observations. My key and wiring has never been messed with, so I can only assume its operating as normal. I need to retrace the wiring diagram, but it seemed to me that power would be interrupted to the CDI without the delayed action relay. With the MS it causes hot start problems. Given that some people are running w/o a delayed action relay maybe it doesn't make that much difference for CIS. Momentary loss of power to fuel pumps, WUR and so on would be inconsequential, but to ignition it might not be.

If you look at the drawing of the ignition key switch on the wiring diagram it actually makes sense. Of course, this is an electrical diagram not a mechanical diagram so it could actually be different in real life but....
Old 01-05-2017, 09:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
Registered User
 
T77911S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MYR S.C.
Posts: 11,163
the yellow relay is DE-ENERGIZED to run the pumps. so the coil can be bad and the pumps run, even with the engine off but key on.
it would have to be either bad metal used for the contacts or probably the solder joints in the relay.
I would pull the original apart and clean the contacts with 600 paper, resolder all the joints, same with the speed relay under the seat. very famous for bad solder joints. I bet there are a lot sitting in shops trash piles that could easily be repaired.

I removed the speed relay and soldered the wires together in my 930 and I put in an MSD with a rev limiter, or you could uses the rotor limiter.

as far as the original yellow relay I would like to get a bad one to see what is really failing, better be careful with that wish, mine could be next.
__________________
86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 01-05-2017, 09:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Secret lair deep underground
Posts: 891
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by T77911S View Post
the yellow relay is DE-ENERGIZED to run the pumps. so the coil can be bad and the pumps run, even with the engine off but key on.
it would have to be either bad metal used for the contacts or probably the solder joints in the relay.
I would pull the original apart and clean the contacts with 600 paper, resolder all the joints, same with the speed relay under the seat. very famous for bad solder joints. I bet there are a lot sitting in shops trash piles that could easily be repaired.

I removed the speed relay and soldered the wires together in my 930 and I put in an MSD with a rev limiter, or you could uses the rotor limiter.

as far as the original yellow relay I would like to get a bad one to see what is really failing, better be careful with that wish, mine could be next.
I'm pretty sure that recently while I was searching for threads on the green wire that I found an old thread (maybe 10 years old) that discussed exactly that. Bob Ashlock might have been a participant on that thread. Not in the turbo of forum.
Old 01-05-2017, 10:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:57 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.