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Brando
 
quattrorunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
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Clutch.....again

Please help me choose a clutch pressure plate.
I need it to hold power and able to launch from a dig. I'm not going to be drag racing..but I don't want to have a clutch spin with full power slip either.
My issues are as follows, and then I'll explain my history as well.
I have a stock 76-77 short bell 930 pressure plate. It holds my average torque fine as long as I don't slip the clutch to get away from standing(I think anyway). But if I need to slip the clutch in order to get moving quicker before full boost hits, and then I do get full boost during the end of the slip process it spins out of control and it's toast and I'm done.
It just doesn't grab and hold with enough clamping force as my 350lb ft produces.
Now my history.
First clutch system was a 225mm aluminum power clutch for a 915 transmission. I used a steel scalloped light weight flywheel and the response was addicting. This wasn't really too bad since I couldn't give full power in 1st gear with the 915 anyway and second gear held up for a while and then started slip after about a year. I bought a center-force clutch and that held fine up until I got a 930 gearbox but it was heavy and noticeable response was now more like a stock weighted clutch:/
The change to 930 gearbox was an expensive one:O And so I went for stock 930 short pressure plate and this time I had an aluminum lightweight flywheel made for the 6 bolt crank. forgot the steel sleeve for torquing the aluminum flywheel and had to remove and redo that but that is another story.
This system has been fine other than the current issues I have.

So my question is this...
Which pressure plate (and flywheel) do I need that is not insanely priced but strong enough to hold legit 500lbft? I want to actually make that with my new engine in time. I do like the light rotational mass but would sacrifice that for strength and reasonable price. I do NOT want to spend $2000 for a clutch. Is it possible?

Please give me clutch evaluations and reviews of whats available? Thanks.

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Old 01-12-2017, 09:10 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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KEP stg II holds 2nd gear launches in my G50. Note, my 2nd gear is about 2 points (gear ratio wise) lower than 1st on a 930.
Old 01-12-2017, 09:30 AM
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Brando
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
KEP stg II holds 2nd gear launches in my G50. Note, my 2nd gear is about 2 points (gear ratio wise) lower than 1st on a 930.
Is that close to the ratio of 930 1st? I remember the 2nd of 915 gear is similar to 2nd of g50 ratio and it was doable but would be hard on the disk. If you say you do that it says a lot..
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
KEP stg II holds 2nd gear launches in my G50. Note, my 2nd gear is about 2 points (gear ratio wise) lower than 1st on a 930.
I no Tippy you have had good luck with the Kep with the g50, I have a short bell housing 930 tranny and my motor is 500hp EFI. I had a centerforce cluth in there originally and loved it , smooth clutch and held the power.When I went to EFI, the clutch starting slipping. So I went with the suggestion of pelican members I went with Kep stage 2. I HATE IT!!!!!!!!! clutch is way to hard, started off soft and got harder as time went on. Shifts good in warm weather but when it gets under 50deg I cant get the car in gear. I have to warm the car up before I drive it...
I upgraded my pedals to 930 pedals , new clutch cable, cut thru wood floor board for more throw. nothing helped. I no the G50 is a hydraulic system so it might work better but for the shortbell housing 930 I have had no luck.
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83 sc cab turbo widebody. 3.5 liter supertec motor, B&B headers, EFI electromotive TecGT, TurboKraft GT35R billet turbo, 964 cams, WM inj, Bell full bay intercooler, Short bell housing turbo 4 speed tranny, roll bar, hargett shifter,
Old 01-12-2017, 10:17 AM
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Brando
 
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good to know thanks
jbrown
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown View Post
I no Tippy you have had good luck with the Kep with the g50, I have a short bell housing 930 tranny and my motor is 500hp EFI. I had a centerforce cluth in there originally and loved it , smooth clutch and held the power.When I went to EFI, the clutch starting slipping. So I went with the suggestion of pelican members I went with Kep stage 2. I HATE IT!!!!!!!!! clutch is way to hard, started off soft and got harder as time went on. Shifts good in warm weather but when it gets under 50deg I cant get the car in gear. I have to warm the car up before I drive it...
I upgraded my pedals to 930 pedals , new clutch cable, cut thru wood floor board for more throw. nothing helped. I no the G50 is a hydraulic system so it might work better but for the shortbell housing 930 I have had no luck.
Hate to say it, but you may need to remove the floorboard. KEP's don't disengage fully with it.
Old 01-12-2017, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattrorunner View Post
Is that close to the ratio of 930 1st? I remember the 2nd of 915 gear is similar to 2nd of g50 ratio and it was doable but would be hard on the disk. If you say you do that it says a lot..
I think it is.

I launched with 5-20 pounds of boost with street tires.

Felt pretty confident it'd hold with drag slicks.
Old 01-12-2017, 10:42 AM
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Brando
 
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Crap with that I wouldn't need to worry to much. Is it light? Or steel?
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:56 AM
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The KEP PP is an aluminum cage
Old 01-12-2017, 11:06 AM
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Call Chris at TurboCraft...that's the best advice I can give you{and I doubt that I'm alone on this}.

He will have your answer, you may not like the price, but give him a chance before you waste money on a guess.

Mark
Old 01-12-2017, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
Hate to say it, but you may need to remove the floorboard. KEP's don't disengage fully with it.
I have never heard of that. Kep never said anything to me about that. I guess I will have to modify my floorboard were the clutch is. I don't want to take the whole board out it will affect my accelerator pedal. Personally I wish I would have be told this before I purchased it
Old 01-12-2017, 03:07 PM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown View Post
I have never heard of that. Kep never said anything to me about that. I guess I will have to modify my floorboard were the clutch is. I don't want to take the whole board out it will affect my accelerator pedal. Personally I wish I would have be told this before I purchased it
When I bought my car, it came with the floorboard out. Later, I read folks here had to remove it to fully disengage on *some* installs.

I'd remove the floorboard immediately so your syncros and hub sliders don't get tore up until you make other arrangements.

Life of aftermarket I guess.
Old 01-12-2017, 03:18 PM
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Clutch.....again

Quote:
Originally Posted by full quack View Post
Call Chris at TurboCraft...that's the best advice I can give you{and I doubt that I'm alone on this}.

He will have your answer, you may not like the price, but give him a chance before you waste money on a guess.

Mark


+100

Chris at TurboKraft will hook you up. I'm running a lightweight clutch with easy pedal effort and 400+ hp. It is a very nice setup. He's got a version for very high power setups as well.
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Old 01-12-2017, 04:28 PM
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I don't find the kep stage 2 to feel heavy or any other problems. I get about 2 years on a disc (120.00) and it holds my measly 625 ft lbs fine.as far as the footboard delemna tippy is referring to I think that is all in how the cable is oriented as it goes over the bell crank ..just my 2
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbmwguy View Post
I don't find the kep stage 2 to feel heavy or any other problems. I get about 2 years on a disc (120.00) and it holds my measly 625 ft lbs fine.as far as the footboard delemna tippy is referring to I think that is all in how the cable is oriented as it goes over the bell crank ..just my 2
Whoa, where are you finding $120 discs from? But, why only 2 years of life?

I treated my Kevlar disc like a red-headed stepchild. Only reason it failed was my RMS puked oil all over it. It still held sometimes.
Old 01-12-2017, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
Hate to say it, but you may need to remove the floorboard. KEP's don't disengage fully with it.
Interesting. I seem to recall when I first installed my KEP stage 1, I was having trouble getting enough release when everything was adjusted to Porsche specs. I ended up taking more slack out of the cable to where the throwout bearing was very close to contacting the PP when not engaged. Basically zero slack. Worked fine after that, no issue with overly stiff or chattering or nothing of the sort and held everything I could punish it with in all gears.

The more clutch threads I see, and the more KEP bashing I see, just don't make sense to me. It was a great setup once dialed in for me anyway. If this is a recurring problem, the someone needs to hold KEP's balls to the fire to rectify the situation if they want to continue selling to our crowd.

I have no idea what's in my current 930, but still have the KEP off the old burnt girl.
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Old 01-12-2017, 05:54 PM
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I have no problem with them, but believed mine was wearing out prematurely before. Not now.

Seems JBrown is pretty upset?
Old 01-12-2017, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonger View Post
+100

Chris at TurboKraft will hook you up. I'm running a lightweight clutch with easy pedal effort and 400+ hp. It is a very nice setup. He's got a version for very high power setups as well.
+1000. Plus I know first hand that he stands behind everything he sells and is available more than he should be to talk on the phone to get help. Tell him your power requirements and plans and he will give you an honest answer what will work and what the pros and cons are for each.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown View Post
I have never heard of that. Kep never said anything to me about that. I guess I will have to modify my floorboard were the clutch is. I don't want to take the whole board out it will affect my accelerator pedal. Personally I wish I would have be told this before I purchased it
You don't need to mess with the gas pedal to get the floor board out.

Before you do anything, depress the clutch fully with the floorboard in and measure the actual throw on the clutch arm as specified in the manual (forget the throw specs -25mm or so??? don't quote me). If you have correct throw, I don't know why you would need to pull the board.

Another good test is that if you can get it into reverse without grinding gears, the clutch has to be fully releasing.

The risk of pulling the floorboard is you can actually depress the clutch too far. Not a good option.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:25 PM
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Mighty Meatlocker Turbo
 
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I heard that JustTheTIPpy depresses the clutch pedal with just the tip - don't know if dat's true, though!

Old 01-12-2017, 10:14 PM
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