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rs27carrera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Are there K27s K27HF, K27HFS existing

I have 930 and looking for turbocharger upgrade. I contacted local Borg Warner rep in Finland and this buddy rose his blood pressure once I was asking if they had K27s K27HF, K27HFS spec turbochargers.

He said that there are just two K27 turbocharger types, 7006 and 7200 and that types what I asked, maker has never used such types but they are completely b **** and he said just to shut down and believe this is THE FACT.

I would never buy anything from that buddy as my intention was just to know what alternatives they have and my inquiry was very friendly where he as sales guy replied like I would never do. And I have browsed net to see those K27 types, and he told that possible in www I can find those K27s K27HF, K27HFS but they never exist in BW.

So how they would be called if they exist in BW portfolio or did someone else make them?
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Kind regards, Harri

964 C4 1992, 930 "RS3.0 looker", Carrera 3.0 1976
911 2.4E 1972 (to be 2.4S+ spec race car), 911 2.2T 1967
Old 02-17-2017, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs27carrera View Post
I have 930 and looking for turbocharger upgrade. I contacted local Borg Warner rep in Finland and this buddy rose his blood pressure once I was asking if they had K27s K27HF, K27HFS spec turbochargers.

He said that there are just two K27 turbocharger types, 7006 and 7200 and that types what I asked, maker has never used such types but they are completely b **** and he said just to shut down and believe this is THE FACT.

I would never buy anything from that buddy as my intention was just to know what alternatives they have and my inquiry was very friendly where he as sales guy replied like I would never do. And I have browsed net to see those K27 types, and he told that possible in www I can find those K27s K27HF, K27HFS but they never exist in BW.

So how they would be called if they exist in BW portfolio or did someone else make them?
Technically he is correct. The K27 came in either 7006 as used on the 94 964 turbo S or the 7200 as used on the late 930 and 964 turbo 3.3 and 3.6. Other versions of their turbos exist like the K24, K29 and others.

The K27HF and K27HFS amongst others are hybrids. They were not made by Borg Warner. These were K27's that were modified by outside turbo tuners. I have a K27HF in my 94 turbo and it is a huge improvement over the stock K27 when accompanied by other modifications. Others I have heard who installed them on stock exhaust claimed they hurt the car's performance. In either case not much has been discussed about these lately and many doing newer upgrades are leaning towards Garret and other brands.
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Old 02-17-2017, 04:58 AM
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Thanks Anthony for quick clarification.

One guy were offering me unused K27.1 7200 for abt USD950, but not sure if it makes more sense to go for those hybrids. I had a plan to modify it a lot with EFI etc (got basically all parts already) but as prices for stock car has increase that much, I may stay with CIS and change just turbo, 964 cams and possible headers. Possibly 7200 is already good enough for my use, should make change versus stock old original 930 charger.
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Kind regards, Harri

964 C4 1992, 930 "RS3.0 looker", Carrera 3.0 1976
911 2.4E 1972 (to be 2.4S+ spec race car), 911 2.2T 1967
Old 02-17-2017, 05:41 AM
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CIS I would stay with a K27
EFI I would go with a garret.
just my opinion because I think when the back pressure is really reduced with the garret you need much better fuel mixture adjustments than what CIS can provide.
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Old 02-17-2017, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by T77911S View Post
CIS I would stay with a K27
EFI I would go with a garret.
just my opinion because I think when the back pressure is really reduced with the garret you need much better fuel mixture adjustments than what CIS can provide.

While I agree that CIS could possibly not produce fuel atomization as good as EFI, back pressure won't factor into that.
Any opportunity to reduce backpressure will enhance performance, regardless of fuel injection method.
Backpressure, besides reducing mass flow through the engine, causes reversion which dilutes the mixture with exhaust gases.
Everyone who has updated to the Garrett with CIS reports improvements over the KKK turbos. In fact I myself am upgrading to one this spring.
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Old 02-17-2017, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911nut View Post
While I agree that CIS could possibly not produce fuel atomization as good as EFI, back pressure won't factor into that.
Any opportunity to reduce backpressure will enhance performance, regardless of fuel injection method.
Backpressure, besides reducing mass flow through the engine, causes reversion which dilutes the mixture with exhaust gases.
Everyone who has updated to the Garrett with CIS reports improvements over the KKK turbos. In fact I myself am upgrading to one this spring.
sure it would.
less back pressure and the mixture leans out on top. CIS cant really be adjusted for the fuel needed on boost and have good AFR's across the RPM range while on boost.
I see a of of guys on here with lean problems above about 6k running a low back pressure turbo like a garret.
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 02-17-2017, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T77911S View Post
sure it would.
less back pressure and the mixture leans out on top. CIS cant really be adjusted for the fuel needed on boost and have good AFR's across the RPM range while on boost.
I see a of of guys on here with lean problems above about 6k running a low back pressure turbo like a garret.
Maybe with a cast iron fuel head with it's stiff metal diaphragm that eventually gets dimpled when wailed on but not as much with an aluminum one with it's flexible rubber diaphragm..
Old 02-17-2017, 05:38 PM
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CIS cant really be adjusted for the fuel needed on boost and have good AFR's across the RPM range while on boost.
That really depends on how much power you are pushing. Up to 400WHP you can tune a nice curve pretty easy, above that it takes more effort but can still be done. Anything much above 450WHP can benefit greatly from the infinite tenability of EFI. The higher the power level the less tolerance the engine has to not being optimally tuned.

To address the original post, the turbos listed (K27S, K27HF, K27HFS) are custom built turbos by UMW in Washington state. They start life as new K27 parts which are modified and assembled. Your buddy is right, those turbos never existed as a KKK/BW product, those would be the K27-7200, K27-7006, K29, and various "999" K27 and K29 hybrids. You can tell the authentic KKK/BW turbos by the blue and silver tag numbers.
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Old 02-17-2017, 07:01 PM
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Ahh the intricacies of the K27. I admit I don't know much. All I know is I want an 11 housing on a short track and at Daytona I want a 13 or 16 housing

11 housings are hard to come by these days

K33


Couple of K27's


11 housing
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
That really depends on how much power you are pushing. Up to 400WHP you can tune a nice curve pretty easy, above that it takes more effort but can still be done. Anything much above 450WHP can benefit greatly from the infinite tenability of EFI. The higher the power level the less tolerance the engine has to not being optimally tuned.
I agree. I have plenty of fuel headroom on my set-up with the K27/K29 turbo and running reasonable boost. Can't see where a Garrett is going to make a vast improvement in mass flow such that I run out of fueling capability. I really want it for the low end improvement anyway.
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Old 02-19-2017, 10:20 AM
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