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After reading your last few posts, 9307004, I'm, now, guessing you are not too mechanically inclined or really know the 930 engine. As such, I apologize for my previous abruptness.

With that being said, there is no way a 930 engine will run quietly like a modern engine. Modern engines have hydraulic lifters which, for all intents and purposes, remove all of the space between the camshaft, rocker arms, and the valves, which also makes the engine run quiet. While hydraulic lifters do yeoman work for engines which run in a normal/lower rev band/envelope, back in the day performance engines only used mechanical lifters or were overhead cam engines which did not have lifters. On overhead cam engines, the camshafts come in direct contact with the rocker arms to get the valves to open (they automatically close because of their springs). When a 930 engine is first started, the contact gap between the rocker arms and the valves is big and will make a fairly loud clacking noise until the engine warms up and that gap is reduced. However, even when the gap is reduced because the engine is warm/hot, the valve train will naturally and always still make noise because that is how it is designed.

Do not fret that you hear this noise. It is supposed to make it.

The only reason you should even do a top end refresh is if you are burning oil; and/or if you do a leak down test and a compression test and the numbers are not what they are supposed to be.

A top end refresh can be as simple as doing a valve job. Or could involve changing the piston rings, the pistons, and could even include the rod bearings, too, since you can get to them without separating the crankcase (however, unless the tests show that you might need piston rings or the mechanic is suspicious of the condition of the pistons, there is absolutely NO need to pull the cylinders to get to the rod bearings).

Unless you visibly see burnt oil coming out of the exhaust on a regular basis as you drive (and I am not talking about smoke upon some start ups [even though that could be an indication of needing valve guides] since some oil accumulation can occur in the turbo), and/or the leak down and/or compression tests are bad, there is absolutely no need to even consider a top end refresh.
Old 03-15-2017, 04:53 PM
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I lived in Indy for several years back in the early '90s. There was only one mechanic I considered an expert on all things 911 and 930. He was also an Indycar pit crew mechanic and is now retired. I found him after being fleeced by a giant A-hole who had a "Porsh" shop in the county.
Get another opinion.
Continue educating yourself here and on other boards so you can make your own informed decision. Dropping $20 large is a huge deal and can quickly turn into more and more if the wrong decisions are made (look up LINCOLN posts here for an example). These cars aren't like anything modern or water cooled, you have to familiarize yourself with the differences, such as never checking the oil when the engine is cold.
We are here to help.
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Old 03-15-2017, 05:20 PM
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Getting ready to drop $20,000 on engine overhaul

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Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
I lived in Indy for several years back in the early '90s. There was only one mechanic I considered an expert on all things 911 and 930. He was also an Indycar pit crew mechanic and is now retired. I found him after being fleeced by a giant A-hole who had a "Porsh" shop in the county.

Get another opinion.

Continue educating yourself here and on other boards so you can make your own informed decision. Dropping $20 large is a huge deal and can quickly turn into more and more if the wrong decisions are made (look up LINCOLN posts here for an example). These cars aren't like anything modern or water cooled, you have to familiarize yourself with the differences, such as never checking the oil when the engine is cold.

We are here to help.


Its even harder to find them now.

Last edited by 93097004xx; 03-15-2017 at 05:51 PM..
Old 03-15-2017, 05:22 PM
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I can't read this whole post without getting frustrated so I'll ask. Has a leakdown test been done? Has compression been checked?
Old 03-15-2017, 05:22 PM
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Getting ready to drop $20,000 on engine overhaul

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Originally Posted by nickyclyde View Post
I can't read this whole post without getting frustrated so I'll ask. Has a leakdown test been done? Has compression been checked?


No the main reason I want this done is to quiet the valves. I thought after 37 years this engine needs to be refreshed.

I guess I was wrong.


Sorry going through my records this car had a top end overhaul about 16 years ago or 1500 miles ago.

I marked them in red. You can see "piston ring set" and R&R engine. The head studs were replaced at this time.




Last edited by 93097004xx; 03-15-2017 at 06:12 PM..
Old 03-15-2017, 05:29 PM
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I adjust my valve clearances to a snug .004" using the Sir Tools feeler gauge made for 911 valve adjustments.

If you remove a valve cover you can check the valve guides by g e n t l y trying to move the valve spring retainers sideways with a large flat blade screwdriver. You can do that to the intakes without draining the motor oil but for the exhaust valves you have to either drain the oil or jack up the side of the car you're going to check high enough that the motor oil in the case goes to the opposite side of the motor. You may still end up with some oil spillage doing that so it's best to wait till you change the oil and do it while there's no oil in it.

If you can move the valve spring retainers sideways a little the valve guides are worn. The exhaust valve guides wear faster than the intakes because the exhaust valves and guides run so much hotter.

People that track their cars can easily wear out the exhaust valve guides in 40,000 miles or less depending on how they drive it and what kind of valve guides are in it. Cars that get regular oil changes and are driven on the street only will have them last longer.

At the same time it doesn't sound like you work on your own car so maybe this info can be a little helpful for others.
Old 03-15-2017, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93097004xx View Post
No the main reason I want this done is to quiet the valves. I thought after 37 years this engine needs to be refreshed.

I guess I was wrong.

It's easy to understand the "37 years" bit, because that is a fairly old engine, and with age, one might think "this thing must need work", butt like I mentioned before, the metal engine components do not age out, and if they have not been exposed to salt water, or similar corrosive substances, they are "like new" except for wear, which based on the mileage and the pampering that your car has seen, wear will be absolutely minimal. Only the rubber components are affected by time (various case seals, the oil return tube seals, etc.) but it is obvious when those need attention as the engine will leak more than Paul's sphincter.

And I promise I was not yankin' yer chain earlier; nothing done during a top end overhaul on your engine will quiet the valve train down at all (other than if the valve lash is set on the tight side).
Old 03-15-2017, 06:29 PM
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OK, so it appears we have come around full circle and we now know what your concern is (valve noise) and I think you have figured out that there is nothing to worry about. Again, with the 930 valve train, you are hearing metal against metal. That is how it was designed. The only thing that reduces that noise is the oil and the expansion of the metals when the engine gets warm/hot.

Since the engine was reworked 1,700 miles ago, now is a good time to have two things checked. Check the head bolt torque and have the valves adjusted. These two things are normally done at about this many miles after engine work.

With that being said, even though these two items are very basic, I would be very wary of taking your car to the two mechanic's you mentioned. If you haven't already, let us know where you live and let somebody from here refer you to somebody else.
Old 03-15-2017, 06:34 PM
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With only 1500 miles on it since the last top end work done it's just broken in and with all the oil changes it's real clean inside.
A good valve adjustment will probably make them a little quieter. There is a silver grey color sticker on the bottom of the rear lid above the AC condenser in an '87 that says valve lash should be .004" + or - .002"
You set them at .004" and as valve seats wear that clearance can get smaller and valve noise may get quieter than it should be but as rocker arms, tops of the valves, and cam lobes wear the clearance gets bigger and you the valve noise gets louder.
If I was near Indy I'd help but I'm in S. Florida... and it's surprisingly cold here right now after a warm winter.
Old 03-15-2017, 06:57 PM
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A top end 1500 mi ago???? Stop worrying!!! Get the valves adjusted and drive it! You aren't doing yourself or the car any favors by letting it sit.

edit - did your mechanic give you the parts that came out?

Last edited by boosted79; 03-16-2017 at 05:12 AM..
Old 03-16-2017, 05:10 AM
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I'd táke the $20k, go on a kick ass vacation and drive the car like you stole it!
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:50 AM
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Getting ready to drop $20,000 on engine overhaul

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A top end 1500 mi ago???? Stop worrying!!! Get the valves adjusted and drive it! You aren't doing yourself or the car any favors by letting it sit.

edit - did your mechanic give you the parts that came out?


My mechanic is as honest as they get. Guys I'm taking full blame for this. I want to get the valve guides replaced, I want a new clutch, I want the peddle assembly rebuilt, I want all new bushings, shocks.

Ok this is embarrassing but I got home last night and realized this car only has 51,000 miles..

I work 70 to 80 hours a week and out of town for weeks on end. I don't have time to drive it like you guys could.

Ironically it's the hours I work that helped me keep the car for so many years as no female would put up with my work schedule or my porsche addiction.

It's me, the engine overhaul came about because I thought heck let's just get everything done.

Maybe the culmination of owning the car for 20 years and 20 years of thinking only if this was done or that. I guess looking back maybe I have embarked on a 20 year restoration and didn't realize it until this thread. I'm in the pursuit of perfection and that's not something that any of can achieve on these cars.










Last edited by 93097004xx; 03-16-2017 at 06:12 AM..
Old 03-16-2017, 06:06 AM
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The engine probably is perfect.
You should get on an oil analysis program. It will tell you when you start getting wear and ease your OCD a bit.
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Old 03-16-2017, 06:40 AM
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I seriously think you're trolling us now!

Why do you think you need new valve guides?

Last edited by Tippy; 03-16-2017 at 06:56 AM..
Old 03-16-2017, 06:41 AM
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Nice!
Old 03-16-2017, 06:42 AM
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Getting ready to drop $20,000 on engine overhaul

Taking it to (the porsche doctor) tomorrow.

I will report back what they find. And what they recommend.

Last edited by 93097004xx; 03-19-2017 at 07:31 PM..
Old 03-16-2017, 06:48 AM
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the same thing was done to my engine just before I bought my car but they did NOT do the guides.



good oil pressure? leave the bottom alone
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Old 03-16-2017, 08:09 AM
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Looks like a great shop, very impressive credentials. It will be interesting to see what they say.
Old 03-16-2017, 08:12 AM
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just get the valves adjusted and also check for exhaust leaks (small ones can sound like a noisy valve train). I know the guy is your friend and you have known him a long time but anyone suggesting another rebuild after only 1500 miles on a top end rebuild. Is not really your friend and is wanting to screw you out of a lot of money. I wouldnt trust somone like that to repair the toilet in the house much less an expensive car. No matter what certifications or experience he has.
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Last edited by Ken911; 03-16-2017 at 08:35 AM..
Old 03-16-2017, 08:22 AM
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Sweet car. Don't worry about the valvetrain noise, that's what makes it a Porsche! Its a solid lifter cam engine. Its character and one of the identifying sounds of an early air cooled Porsche. You should hear noticeable valvetrain noise on that motor when they are properly adjusted. (noticeable compared to a modern car)
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Old 03-16-2017, 08:32 AM
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