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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
Here is my turbo mates latest reply, but I think it all points to having to get the turbo checked out by somebody else. Regards Alan.

Depending on what was done for the repair of the turbine, most repairs I have seen on the k27 turbine shafts create an out of alignment in the shaft. This can also be through the fusion weld that welds the turbine vane head to the turbine shaft not always visible until temperature is applied during operation. This is also why I replaced your turbine shaft and did not attempt a repair. I would look at replacing the turbine shaft with a genuine new unit and VSR balancing the unit.
Hi Alan,

I spoke to the rebuilder yesterday and asked about the turbine and they assured me it was replaced and it is in one piece, shaft and turbine wheel, from Borg Warner. Their feeling was it was very unlikely that it was not true as it works as it should when VSR tested.

Thanks again mate.
Steve.
Old 06-05-2017, 08:04 PM
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Steve, RE the in-line oil gauge idea; I just do not see how there is any way you are experiencing a "too much oil pressure at turbo" problem - this is based on the scavenge test, and also the fact that the turbo oil feed shares its boss with the low oil pressure, idiot light switch, which is partially made of plastic - I don't think that it would handle the type of pressure that would be required to overcome the turbo seal rings.
Old 06-05-2017, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
Steve, RE the in-line oil gauge idea; I just do not see how there is any way you are experiencing a "too much oil pressure at turbo" problem - this is based on the scavenge test, and also the fact that the turbo oil feed shares its boss with the low oil pressure, idiot light switch, which is partially made of plastic - I don't think that it would handle the type of pressure that would be required to overcome the turbo seal rings.
Hi Rawknees,
If I understand what you say. Is that where the oil line that comes from the engine and where the restrictor ball is located that the oil pressure switch on top of it and triggers the low oil pressure light on the dash gauge that this would not cope with high oil pressure.
Just to humor me mate can you tell me if you know what actually sends the oil to and through that restrictor ball?
Is it from the crank pressure or is there a pump?
Old 06-05-2017, 08:28 PM
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One Q. Have they tested the turbo with some oil pressure - even statically. At the shop I mean. Can they spin it up with 15psi warm oil for 10 mins and see no leakage. Hopefully they could do this before returning it. It should be able to operate with 50-60psi and not leak - if they are able to test it that high. Good they are prepared to persist with it.
I can't see what could be wrong at your end - it was working OK before. One thing you could do to prove your end OK, another way. Next time you fit it, disconnect the oil return line and do your scavenge test. But run the system for 10 mins or so - as long as it has taken before for the leak to show. You are effectively running a total loss oil system then, and no way can there be any restriction to allow excess oil to build up - from your end of the equation anyway.
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 06-05-2017, 08:35 PM
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Steve, yes that is the switch, and area, that I'm talking about.

I would need to look up the oiling schematic for these engines, but I'm almost 100% certain it is reading crank oil pressure (determined by the size of the oil passages in it, the oil holes in the bearings, etc), and I know for 100% certain that it is not reading the actual oil pump pressure (and no separate pump exists for the turbo oil supply).
Old 06-05-2017, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
Steve, yes that is the switch, and area, that I'm talking about.

I would need to look up the oiling schematic for these engines, but I'm almost 100% certain it is reading crank oil pressure (determined by the size of the oil passages in it, the oil holes in the bearings, etc), and I know for 100% certain that it is not reading the actual oil pump pressure (and no separate pump exists for the turbo oil supply).
Thanks again mate.
Steve.
Old 06-05-2017, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBK930 View Post
I also mentioned here that I was considering placing an in line oil pressure gauge set prior to the turbo intake to see what pressure is registering there. So far no one here has commented to say whether or not it has been done or if it would be a good idea.

.
If you want a reply - I don't see the point. The turbo has to be able to handle what pressure your system is feeding it. There is no pressure restrictor in the system to step the turbo oil feed down in pressure. So, whatever pressure you measure between 15 - 60 psi it has to be capable of handling. And from what you have quoted of your oil pressure readings, they seem quite normal - as expected. So your gauge is in the ball park.
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 06-05-2017, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
One Q. Have they tested the turbo with some oil pressure - even statically. At the shop I mean. Can they spin it up with 15psi warm oil for 10 mins and see no leakage. Hopefully they could do this before returning it. It should be able to operate with 50-60psi and not leak - if they are able to test it that high. Good they are prepared to persist with it.
I can't see what could be wrong at your end - it was working OK before. One thing you could do to prove your end OK, another way. Next time you fit it, disconnect the oil return line and do your scavenge test. But run the system for 10 mins or so - as long as it has taken before for the leak to show. You are effectively running a total loss oil system then, and no way can there be any restriction to allow excess oil to build up - from your end of the equation anyway.
Alan
Hi Alan,
When the first rebuild failed I asked them if they were able to get it hot and was told even though they feed in oil and spin it they can not heat it as an exhaust heats the turbine wheel. However they said it was spun for 10 or more minutes in the VSR machine to test balancing and function.
The last install I did disconnect the scavenge line and ran it for around 15 minutes to really see it at operating temp and oil pressure. I could even see the difference in oil flow from cold to hot.That is: when cold the scavenge pump pumps faster than the flow of oil but as it heats up the flow increases from the turbo and the scavenge pump keeps pace with it until I increase the revs where the pump is better than the flow again.

I think I am just going insane.
Steve.
Old 06-05-2017, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
If you want a reply - I don't see the point. The turbo has to be able to handle what pressure your system is feeding it. There is no pressure restrictor in the system to step the turbo oil feed down in pressure. So, whatever pressure you measure between 15 - 60 psi it has to be capable of handling. And from what you have quoted of your oil pressure readings, they seem quite normal - as expected. So your gauge is in the ball park.
Alan
Thanks mate.
Old 06-05-2017, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SBK930 View Post
Hi Alan,
When the first rebuild failed I asked them if they were able to get it hot and was told even though they feed in oil and spin it they can not heat it as an exhaust heats the turbine wheel. However they said it was spun for 10 or more minutes in the VSR machine to test balancing and function.
The last install I did disconnect the scavenge line and ran it for around 15 minutes to really see it at operating temp and oil pressure. I could even see the difference in oil flow from cold to hot.That is: when cold the scavenge pump pumps faster than the flow of oil but as it heats up the flow increases from the turbo and the scavenge pump keeps pace with it until I increase the revs where the pump is better than the flow again.

I think I am just going insane.
Steve.
Did you have oil weeping from the turbo while/after you did this?
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 06-05-2017, 10:21 PM
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SBK, I'm not familiar with your engine and any mods you have done. Do you have a stock air cleaner element, air cleaner housing, and air routing tubes from the metering head to the turbo inlet?
Old 06-05-2017, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
Did you have oil weeping from the turbo while/after you did this?
Alan
Hi Alan,

Just went and took this pic it looks as bad as the one I took after the 2nd rebuild.

This is the view down the compressor side of the turbo as it is still in my car, this oil has been sitting in there for 6 days now.

No weeping from the compressor side until a few days later = very little, and none from the inlet or outlet and I can not tell if it's leaking from the turbine side yet.


Last edited by SBK930; 06-06-2017 at 01:17 AM..
Old 06-06-2017, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post
SBK, I'm not familiar with your engine and any mods you have done. Do you have a stock air cleaner element, air cleaner housing, and air routing tubes from the metering head to the turbo inlet?
All stock Jim,
New mahle air filter from Pelican.
Only mods that I know of is the 7006 turbo,Monty muffler and I am not sure about the rocker boxes as they are numbered 964.
I have owned it for 14 years and there is 51,000 miles on the speedo. I have only put around 6,000 miles on it, but according to the engine numbers it may not be the original motor even though it is a 78 engine, because the numbers are a couple of hundred apart.

Last edited by SBK930; 06-06-2017 at 07:06 PM..
Old 06-06-2017, 12:36 AM
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update

Removed the turbo this morning and there is obviously some progress.

At least this time I have run it the longest time of all 3 rebuilds and found the turbine side is not puking oil, it was dry as a ...........dead dingos donga (Australiana for ya).

Its a start.
Old 06-06-2017, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SBK930 View Post
All stock Jim,
New mahle air filter from Pelican.
Only mods that I know of is the 7006 turbo,Monty muffler and I am not sure about the rocker boxes as they are numbered 964.
I have owned it for 14 years and there is 51,000 miles on the speedo. I have only put around 6,000 miles on it, but according to the engine numbers it may not be the original motor even though it is a 78 engine, because the numbers are a couple of hundred apart.
Then that rules out an intake restriction resulting in vacuum in front of the compressor, which can/would pull oil past the ring seal.
Old 06-06-2017, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBK930 View Post
Removed the turbo this morning and there is obviously some progress.

At least this time I have run it the longest time of all 3 rebuilds and found the turbine side is not puking oil, it was dry as a ...........dead dingos donga (Australiana for ya).

Its a start.
That's a positive way to look at it!

Too bad you will likely never get a full, honest explanation for what has gone wrong with the multiple re-builds, butt hopefully the shop will get it right eventually.
Old 06-06-2017, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rawknees'turbo View Post
that's a positive way to look at it! :d

too bad you will likely never get a full, honest explanation for what has gone wrong with the multiple re-builds, butt hopefully the shop will get it right eventually.
touchÉ.
Old 06-06-2017, 08:40 PM
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touchÉ.
Steve, despite yankin' yer chain a little (not like THAT! ), I really do hope it works out for you with that shop. I'm sure that your confidence in them is low at this point, however, as mine sure is and it's not even my turbocharger.
Old 06-06-2017, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
Steve, despite yankin' yer chain a little (not like THAT! ), I really do hope it works out for you with that shop. I'm sure that your confidence in them is low at this point, however, as mine sure is and it's not even my turbocharger.
Yep. Thanks mate.

At least they got it half right.

Put a note in the box - Do to the compressor side as you did to the turbine side as it does not leak this time. lol.
Old 06-06-2017, 11:09 PM
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Hello guys,

I have a same issue here in France (sorry for my english)

I have a rebuild KKK on my 930 3.3 .. And a lot of oil in the exhaust...
Old 07-04-2017, 12:42 PM
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