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Front oil cooler

I got a used one here and it's leaking . Can someone recommends a good one for a 3.2 litter , I remember someone here recommend some type of Subaru Cooler . All my lines are 12 AN fittings .
Thanks .
Old 04-13-2017, 05:06 PM
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Mazda RX7 cooler
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Old 04-13-2017, 05:48 PM
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I did this for my car, when I got rid of the the engine mounted oil cooler. ( I went with the 993 oil filter console). Both oil coolers, fans, related lines and fittings were right around $800 if I recall. Obviously, you would not need to do this to the extent I did, but one should be plenty for your needs. I bought all of this from Summitt Racing, who had all of it in stock.

[IMG]DSCN2294 by Brad, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DSCN2295 by Brad, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 04-14-2017, 05:05 AM
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The original front right cellular coolers are well engineered and made to fit.

OE Reproduction kits starting at $220 range in inventory. Absolute necessity here in hot Scottsdale, Arizona!



This kit would be for both front right and left fenders or front center mount ideal if you want to update the front bumper cover.
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Old 04-14-2017, 11:03 PM
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I have a B&B front oil cooler in a DP air damn. It fits really well and works good. It was in the car when I got it.

Years ago I got an RX7 oil cooler from a salvage yard out of curiosity and it looks like a decent one but the oil fittings on it are small. They looked like they would be an oil flow restriction to the scavenge side of big 930 oil pump and because off that I wouldn't recommend it.
It might be OK in a smaller Porsche motor with the smaller oil pumps they use.

I listed it for sale and nobody wanted it. I got tired of storing it and eventually threw it in the trash. I kept the two oil line fittings from it because they're small and I'm a bit of a pack rat. If anyone wanted them I'd sell them cheap.
Old 04-15-2017, 08:34 AM
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Budget Oil Cooling - Myth Dispelled

Direct race experience in this thread. Motor is only about 230HP though.
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86 930 Slantnose - featured in Mar-Apr 2016 Classic Porsche
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Old 04-15-2017, 06:23 PM
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That's not a 3.0 or a 3.3 turbo motor. It's 2.7 with a tiny littler oil scavenge pump a fraction of the size of the one in a turbo motor.. NO COMPARISON.

Maybe I should get the oil line fittings i have from an RX7 oil cooler and take a picture with my caliper showing the ID of them. They are really tiny compared to a 930 oil line, oil line fitting, or inlet outlet hole in a 930 oil cooler.
Old 04-15-2017, 06:50 PM
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JFairman - you were a naysayer when I did this mod nearly 8 years ago... it is still working fine and this is in a race car.

I agree it is a 2.7 with only 230 HP (read my post right above yours). It has to shed about 1/2 the heat of a hot 3.3 Turbo.

Before you drone on (and on) about hole sizes, what is the viscosity of 15:40 oil hot vs cold and the associated pressure drop across the small restrictions in the RX7 cooler? How does this pressure drop compare to the friction pressure in the oil lines from the back of the car to the front! How does this compare to the restriction in the external thermostat in the right rear fender?

Use some math or science, not just some BS that you read someplace or made up.
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76 930 - featured in Sept 2013 Pano
77 911S Wide Body GT2 WCMA race car
86 930 Slantnose - featured in Mar-Apr 2016 Classic Porsche
Yoosta have: 90 C4 Targa, 87 944, 73 911 ChumpCar endurance racer - featured in May-June & July-Aug 2016 Classic Porsche
Old 04-15-2017, 07:26 PM
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The total flow from the scavenge pump doesn't necessarily all go thru the front cooler. The thermostat wax pill is not either all open or all closed, it modulates based on the oil temp so some of the oil goes to the front cooler and the rest goes into the tank. So if the fitting size in the front cooler is big enough to handle the amount of oil it needs to maintain the oil temp for the engine load and ambient that's all that's req'd. A small oil flow to the front cooler may work in some locations but not in others. Happy Easter

Last edited by boosted79; 04-16-2017 at 05:28 AM..
Old 04-16-2017, 05:25 AM
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For 3.0L and beyond, -16AN is the ideal for the oil cooler circuit. -12AN is adequate and works just fine when supplementing the original oil cooler.

For a Turbo / 3.2L / 3.6L / 3.8L I would suggest -16AN as it matches the M30 union size.

The early cars ran M26 oil unions on the pressure / return side and the later 911 / Turbos stepped up the size to M30 unions.

ppetion, if you have a leaking front right cooler I would suggest the factory style cooler and then add a Spal fan / shroud. The 3.2L DME engines run hot so you need the capacity.

The Fluidyne is great option, about the same capacity as original.

A Mazda cooler...resourceful to use on a Vanagon if laying around but not ideal for a >3.0L Porsche dry sump. And Subaru and others are water cooled and different with common -10AN (too small). Be smart with the heart of your engine!
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraftday View Post

A Mazda cooler...resourceful to use on a Vanagon if laying around but not ideal for a >3.0L Porsche dry sump. And Subaru and others are water cooled and different with common -10AN (too small). Be smart with the heart of your engine!
Do you have any direct experience with this or are you just reciting what you have read on the interwebs or made up?

I have run a Mazda cooler for just about 8 years on a race engine (see above).

It would be a different story if the entire cooling system was 10AN but it isn't. There is one bottle neck in the Mazda cooler and the resulting back pressure at this slight restriction is less than the friction pressure of the factory lines to and from the cooler, plus the restriction within the factory thermostat in the right rear fender.

Disagree? Provide some math that shows otherwise.
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86 930 Slantnose - featured in Mar-Apr 2016 Classic Porsche
Yoosta have: 90 C4 Targa, 87 944, 73 911 ChumpCar endurance racer - featured in May-June & July-Aug 2016 Classic Porsche
Old 04-18-2017, 04:53 AM
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Here's a picture showing the inside diameter of a Mazda RX7 oil line fitting. The digital caliper was zero'd before measuring.
The inside diameter is 9.43mm.
That is wayyy smaller than what Porsche used on a 3.0 or 3.3 liter 911 turbo or 930 motor.
Might be OK for a 2.7 or smaller motor but this is the 911 turbo forum.

...whatever
Old 04-18-2017, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraftday View Post
The original front right cellular coolers are well engineered and made to fit.

OE Reproduction kits starting at $220 range in inventory. Absolute necessity here in hot Scottsdale, Arizona!



This kit would be for both front right and left fenders or front center mount ideal if you want to update the front bumper cover.
Went to the site for this. Plugged in 1984 Porsche and searched everything oil cooler, remote cooler, oil cooler kit and didn't find this stuff. Their site is a pain. If it is a kit what is the trick to finding it other than a broad search of all 700 coolers many of them not having pictures available?
Any help is appreciated.
Old 04-18-2017, 09:51 AM
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I did the same. Went to the website, no place to even get into a parts catalog to see what they sell. If someone wants to sell me something they'd better have a website where I can order it. If I have to call they don't get my business unless it's a tech question. This is 2017, not 1987.
Old 04-18-2017, 10:30 AM
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Looks like a grand in Porsche parts to me but hey, I'll give it a shot if I can get that cooler right..
My next stop will probably Summit and Earl's. Helps to be driving distance to the guys who supply the racers at the Indy track.
Old 04-18-2017, 11:43 AM
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Hi Uncle Billy, yes I have some real hands on experience with using, selling, designing Porsche oil coolers, hundreds over the years. No need to get defensive about your choice..8 years on your race car, good for you..wow $12.50 per year. I'm not saying a Mazda or any other cooler wouldn't work but I am saying it would not be ideal or a good match for this application. JFairman, thanks for taking the time to illustrate the "math", 9.5mm I.D. is not going to cut it especially here were the climate is hot and if the cooler is in the right front.

B&B for sure also has a well designed systems both front right and center mount and I order those on occasion for customers. Not cheep hardware. Billy Boat worked from our same building back in the good old days here in AZ.

For any of you wanting a cheep repro cooler as shown in the pic on the scale, I currently have 2 and they feature the factory size, non removable M30x1.5 male unions. I was going to use them both on a 914-6 racecar project that is now for sale instead. These coolers are $220 each. With new short lines, $290. Most want different parts or need to adapt to somthing different like a Mazda or Ferrari cooler..so we just send quotes by request via email project by project and with our experience if that maters to you. We also have the OEM coolers as shown with the kit. The prices depend on the config. Many variables and choices.

Here is an original RRS front mount cooler for example..


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Old 04-18-2017, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobrat930 View Post
I did this for my car, when I got rid of the the engine mounted oil cooler. ( I went with the 993 oil filter console). Both oil coolers, fans, related lines and fittings were right around $800 if I recall. Obviously, you would not need to do this to the extent I did, but one should be plenty for your needs. I bought all of this from Summitt Racing, who had all of it in stock.

[IMG]DSCN2294 by Brad, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DSCN2295 by Brad, on Flickr[/IMG]
what was the part number for this kit I looked and couldnt find it.
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
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what was the part number for this kit I looked and couldnt find it.
Ken, there is no part#, as this is not a kit. Just something I put together myself. I measured and wanted the biggest dual pass oil cooler I could fit under the fenders on each side.
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:02 AM
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ok I was thinking of adding a cooler in one of my rear fender vents. whats the part number of the coolers and fittings? I only wanted to get one cooler. ..oh yeah and a thermostat. I removed the front fender cooler when i put the slant nose fenders on and put a center mount cooler in the air dam. But in slow traffic and sometimes at the track it's not enough.
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:20 AM
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Kraftday and JFairman...

A few points...

Using a $5 Harbour Freight digital vernier caliper to measure the ID of the bypass of the mazda cooler is not 'math' - at least not the type of math that I learned at school - oh and I am a professional engineer so I know a little bit about this stuff.

What is the pressure drop across this restriction? You could measure this but you need a pressure gauge, not a $5 vernier caliper. You could also calculate it based on the diameter (9.43mm), flow rate, discharge coefficient, mass density, etc. The trick it that there are some unknowns such as flow rate, etc.

What is the friction pressure in the oil lines between the thermostat and the cooler? My guess is that that is greater than the pressure drop across the bypass in the rx7 cooler which makes the restriction in the cooler negligible.

Take apart that Mocal thermostat or a Porsche thermostat and report back on the restriction through it.

Additionally, as part of of my career, I have done a great deal of testing and optimization of orifice diameters to optimize and balance flow in downhole tools, completions, and oilfield equipment. Prior to this 12 year (and counting) gig, I is used to design fuel cell stacks, heat exchangers and associated manifolding. This is kinda what I do...

Here is a little picture of the flow loop that I have in my shop. It allows us to pump water or almost any hydrocarbon from 0 - 500L/minute up to 6000 psi. It is fully instrumented and we use this to check pressure drop all the time.



You guys are WRONG here and you are trying to bully me for reporting on factual experience because it doesn't agree with what you have been lead to believe. What's next, are you going to burn me for being a witch?
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86 930 Slantnose - featured in Mar-Apr 2016 Classic Porsche
Yoosta have: 90 C4 Targa, 87 944, 73 911 ChumpCar endurance racer - featured in May-June & July-Aug 2016 Classic Porsche
Old 04-20-2017, 07:04 AM
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