Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 4.00 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: DC
Posts: 1,202
Garage
Wastegate spring or Boost controler

As some you know, I just put my 92 965 Turbo together and I want some extra boost, I don't really plan on tracking the car , but maybe an autocross or a few seconds on full on the road, The only mod I have is a FabSpeed Cat bypass. and thinking of a wastegate bypass in the future.

My old 76 911 GT clone 423HP 3.3 Turbo car had tial wastegate with 1.1 bar boost , and it ran a lot lean on top, It lasted for 15 years and countless track events and autocrosses and weekly drag racing.

These 964 Turbo are limited .7 bar, it seems to want more boost. Most people change the wastegate springs to up the boost, Why not a boost controller ? wouldn't a boost controller give more tuneability ?

What springs are most common to use on these cars ? Can I run 1.1 bar boost safely?
__________________
1986 944 turbo -first car
1997 993 Cab 6 speed-sold
1992 964 C2 turbo
SOLD, 911GT ,CIS, 428 fwhp 450 trq, Carrillo rods, 964 cams, TT retainers,7.5 comp 1.1 bar boost 320 ml black fuel head 009 injectors, 044 pumps, 60-1 T4/T3 dual scroll turbo
Old 06-28-2017, 08:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jeff NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NW NJ
Posts: 1,189
I have a GrimmSpeed Manual boost controller in the engine bay (so I don't turn up the boost when the adrenaline is flowing) and I think it works well. It is very consistent as measured with my PLX boost gauge and has increments of .25 psi, so you put it right where you want it. I had a 1.0 bar spring in my TiAl but I found it was not consistent enough for me and this is a better solution, IMO. I have a .7 bar spring in the wastegate.

I am set at 1.0 bar and happy with the performance, so will not set it higher. I doubt 1.1 is an engine killer, but I'm not risking it.

At the end of this thread there is a link to my install: Car ran terrible tonight!
__________________
1988 930 Venetian Blue
Old 06-28-2017, 09:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: DC
Posts: 1,202
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff NJ View Post
I have a GrimmSpeed Manual boost controller in the engine bay (so I don't turn up the boost when the adrenaline is flowing) and I think it works well. It is very consistent as measured with my PLX boost gauge and has increments of .25 psi, so you put it right where you want it. I had a 1.0 bar spring in my TiAl but I found it was not consistent enough for me and this is a better solution, IMO. I have a .7 bar spring in the wastegate.

I am set at 1.0 bar and happy with the performance, so will not set it higher. I doubt 1.1 is an engine killer, but I'm not risking it.

At the end of this thread there is a link to my install: Car ran terrible tonight!
Thanks Jeff

Jeff how many clicks did you do ? 18 clicks at .25 psi each click = .3013 bar + .7 bar =1.013 bar which = 14.7 total PSI ? does that sound right to you ? see diagram below, is this the way you installed the boost controller on your car ?

__________________
1986 944 turbo -first car
1997 993 Cab 6 speed-sold
1992 964 C2 turbo
SOLD, 911GT ,CIS, 428 fwhp 450 trq, Carrillo rods, 964 cams, TT retainers,7.5 comp 1.1 bar boost 320 ml black fuel head 009 injectors, 044 pumps, 60-1 T4/T3 dual scroll turbo
Old 06-28-2017, 11:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Old car guy.....
 
Hot Euro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 585
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by heliolps2 View Post
Thanks Jeff

Jeff how many clicks did you do ? 18 clicks at .25 psi each click = .3013 bar + .7 bar =1.013 bar which = 14.7 total PSI ? does that sound right to you ? see diagram below, is this the way you installed the boost controller on your car ?

Is there an advantage to this hookup? ^^^ My hose goes from the intercooler (source) directly to the manual controller in the console and back to the lower port on the wg. The top port vented to atmosphere.
__________________
Steve
1981 SC Steel Widebody, DP Lid, 930/51 to 3.2l, K27 7006 Turbo, DOD, P&P Twin Plug heads, Twinfire Ignition, Ruf Intercooler, Powerhaus headers, Zork, CIS Euro FD, 009 injectors, 044 pump, BLwur, 930 4 sp LSD, Mocal 44 w/fan, LM2, Brembo, Retroair, Euromeisters
2003 BMW Z4 Daily Driver & Autocross car.
Old 06-29-2017, 04:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Austin
Posts: 432
I would get an AFR meter 1st. - make sure your AFR is safe with a healthy margin because of number 2 below

2nd the boost was so low on the 964 turbo due to terrible timing resolution - 3 teeth on the flywheel
and they are not symmetrical. Put a timing light on it under boost and see it jump around.

Mine ran dangerously lean with a 1 bar spring with stock internals - after headers and free flow muffler (rarlyl8) it was way too lean. I then needed rarlyl8 to modify my WUR.
Old 06-29-2017, 05:19 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Austin
Posts: 432
I have one of these:
Zeitronix LCD : Four value display for the Zt-2 Wideband Engine Datalogging System

you can wedge the LCD screen between the top of your center console and bottom of dash - NO holes NO cutting.

It does , AFR , Boost/Vac , EGT , and it logs while doing boost runs with a lap top.
Old 06-29-2017, 05:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Austin
Posts: 432
Then you will need a set of CIS gauges

and

You will be wishing for EFI again
Old 06-29-2017, 05:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jeff NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NW NJ
Posts: 1,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by heliolps2 View Post
Thanks Jeff

Jeff how many clicks did you do ? 18 clicks at .25 psi each click = .3013 bar + .7 bar =1.013 bar which = 14.7 total PSI ? does that sound right to you ? see diagram below, is this the way you installed the boost controller on your car ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Euro View Post
Is there an advantage to this hookup? ^^^ My hose goes from the intercooler (source) directly to the manual controller in the console and back to the lower port on the wg. The top port vented to atmosphere.
I plumbed mine like Hot Euro did. It's simpler and it works.

I don't remember exactly how I setup the Grimmspeed out of the box, but I do know I was WAY OFF. On my first boost, the overboost relay cut out the fuel and saved me. I dialed it way back, and then did a bunch of runs where I slowly increased it and dialed it in while using the PLX to see actual boost pressure. Once I got it to where I wanted it, I haven't touched it since.
__________________
1988 930 Venetian Blue
Old 06-29-2017, 09:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
16Volt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 984
Get an AFR gauge first. Then get a quality EBC with overboost protection.

That first picture is a little confusing - you would plumb it like that if you are running an ebc, not a manual controller. In a manual setup you need to vent diaphragm pressure to atmosphere somewhere, with a EBC that vent pressure is modulated via the solenoid to control onset pressure.
__________________
- 86 Porsche 930 - Mr.Hyde
- 86 BMW 635CSi - Dr.Jeykell
- 2006 Infiniti M45 Sport
https://medium.com/@crashingdoor

Last edited by 16Volt; 06-29-2017 at 09:29 AM..
Old 06-29-2017, 09:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jeff NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NW NJ
Posts: 1,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Hat View Post
I would get an AFR meter 1st. - make sure your AFR is safe with a healthy margin because of number 2 below

2nd the boost was so low on the 964 turbo due to terrible timing resolution - 3 teeth on the flywheel
and they are not symmetrical. Put a timing light on it under boost and see it jump around.

Mine ran dangerously lean with a 1 bar spring with stock internals - after headers and free flow muffler (rarlyl8) it was way too lean. I then needed rarlyl8 to modify my WUR.
Black Hat is correct about the AFR's. Going from .7 to 1.0 dramatically changes the AFR under boost. I already had the Leask WUR, so I definitely was tweaking WCP, boost enrichment and boost onset to get the AFR curve correct.
But again, once I got it right, I'm not playing with it anymore...

If you don't have a good boost/AFR gauge, don't up the boost until you do, IMO.
__________________
1988 930 Venetian Blue
Old 06-29-2017, 09:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: DC
Posts: 1,202
Garage
My car is a 965 3.3, I just went for a test drive and checked am AFR's as a base, 2nd gear pull 10.2 afr, shifting to 3rd to 6000 rpm's 10.9 to 11.2, A little rich, and I have no cat,

I raised the idle to 1000 prm's to make for the drop when I turn the AC, saying that, It idles at 17.9 afr happily. my 930 3.3 idled at 13.5 to 14 afr. hnnn...... I feel that when I install the Manual Boost controller it should take care of the rich on boost, I dont to play with WUR or the SP, because runs perfect now, just rich on boost
__________________
1986 944 turbo -first car
1997 993 Cab 6 speed-sold
1992 964 C2 turbo
SOLD, 911GT ,CIS, 428 fwhp 450 trq, Carrillo rods, 964 cams, TT retainers,7.5 comp 1.1 bar boost 320 ml black fuel head 009 injectors, 044 pumps, 60-1 T4/T3 dual scroll turbo
Old 06-29-2017, 02:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: DC
Posts: 1,202
Garage
Any ideas on a boost gauge that I can install temporarily for testing purposes ? Can I use the stock boost sending unit for a electronic gauge or would it be better to hook a Vacuum style boost gauge ? I could hook it up to a vacuum line somewhere? and which vacuum hose can I tap into? again for only testing and setup only.

I was thinking of Teeing off the same vacuum line before the controller for the boost gauge ? what do you think ?
__________________
1986 944 turbo -first car
1997 993 Cab 6 speed-sold
1992 964 C2 turbo
SOLD, 911GT ,CIS, 428 fwhp 450 trq, Carrillo rods, 964 cams, TT retainers,7.5 comp 1.1 bar boost 320 ml black fuel head 009 injectors, 044 pumps, 60-1 T4/T3 dual scroll turbo
Old 06-29-2017, 02:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Austin
Posts: 432
[QUOTEAny ideas on a boost gauge that I can install temporarily for testing purposes][/QUOTE]

AFR & Boost/VAC

and matches interior without holes

Zeitronix LCD : Four value display for the Zt-2 Wideband Engine Datalogging System
Old 06-29-2017, 03:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:12 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.