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starter issue?

I'd gotten a new battery at the onset of this season after my previous one seemed to have gone unchargeably dead.

Didn't solve my starting problem. Hmmm. Figured maybe a loose battery connection, or maybe a corroded starter wire or ground strap? Nope. All connections good.

Voltmeter reads 13.4-12.9 while driving, maybe 12.1 w/ lights on.

Starter tries to turn over like the battery is very low. A few slow pathetic attempts at turnover. Then (sometimes!)... the starter speed will suddenly increase somewhat and voila it'll start. If not, the starter speed slows to barely a click-over, then down to nothing but a click, then I've got to bump start the fukker.

Has the starter gone tits up? Or???

Separately since I'm posting... any suggestions how to rid a hemorrhaging oil leak at the gigantic oil line nut into the driver side of the case... the main feed. I've got Pelican's oil wrench set and one fits it, just that there's no good way to get the wrench onto the nut w/o the head of the wrench hitting the case. I can get it straight on somewhat to where there should be enough swing room, but the wrench isn't getting sufficient purchase on the nut. I'd tightened it 2-3yrs ago to where I'd thought it was "tight!" but I've got a decent amount of wetness spraying from that... burns off header before hitting ground. SUPER annoying.

Any insight appreciated, TIA germs!
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
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| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 07-13-2017, 09:08 AM
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Paul, not enough volts, should be 14+ volts while running.
Old 07-13-2017, 09:51 AM
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12.1 with lights on is low.

put the battery on a charger and see how it starts.

here is a thread on rebuilding the starter, could help if all else is good and it still does it.

SOLENOID and STARTER rebuild......finally
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
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90 B2200[] RUNNING:[_] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [_] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 07-13-2017, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
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12.1 with lights on is low.
^ agree. maybe the alternator or voltage regulator is bad, killed your battery and in process of killing the new battery.
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Old 07-13-2017, 10:19 AM
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12.1 v with lights on would mean discharging , on a 12.8-13v new battery. Is your discharge light on? The charge system has to put out enough volts to overcome the battery voltage and then supply enough volts (emf) to charge (reverse the chem reaction the lead/acid produces).
It sounds like your battery is slowly running down. Sounds like the regulator is not opening up enough. As above - charge or try another battery and see if cranks faster.
Also, CHECK ALL EARTHS. They are just as important as the battery voltage. Bad earth = bad voltage. But you know that. Check earth strap on battery and earth strap by gearbox.
Is the fan/belt tension correct? Hopefully you can't spin the fan by hand.
Regards
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)

Last edited by Alan L; 07-13-2017 at 05:40 PM..
Old 07-13-2017, 05:36 PM
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What about your alternator diode Need NLA Diode for the Gray Slant
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Old 07-13-2017, 06:31 PM
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Paul-

Have you put a remote start on the starter lugs? I think you could rule out the starter as the culprit doing that. I can send you mine if you want to borrow it.
Old 07-14-2017, 03:18 AM
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thanks for all the suggestions, much appreciated - gives me some great weakend fodder to futz with... will recruit Alfa John here to help run some diag 8-)

no charging light coming on, no tach issues so didn't think it was the alt but will look further

thanks Will - I *think* I've got one of those here somewhere, good idea

oy, always something...
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| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 07-14-2017, 06:22 AM
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how about anything on the oil leak?
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 07-14-2017, 06:28 AM
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grind the wrench if you need to and it wont weaken it. I have tools I have ground down to fit. my injector wrench is ground down on the sides
you might want to be careful with this connection,. have you removed it and checked it? is it leaking at the connection or where the hose is crimped.
I think there is an adapter that goes into the block, no?

does the alt light come on with engine off and key on
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[] RUNNING:[_] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [_] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:

Last edited by T77911S; 07-14-2017 at 06:49 AM..
Old 07-14-2017, 06:42 AM
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will check the alt light, thanks

leak is at the ginormous metal line 'nut' (queue Rawknees) that goes in to the driver's side of the block
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 07-14-2017, 07:27 AM
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Paul, have you pulled it apart and checked for nicks or any debris that can cause it to not seal properly? The root cause is probably that or its been cranked down too hard and deformed, I would think? Cranking it down to overcome them may work for a time, but is not the best idea in the world.

Mine doesn't leak at all and I think I just used a big crescent wrench or a big SAE wrench that was real close when I had it off without crazy torque.
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:38 AM
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not yet, sounds messy - will loose all case oil I assume

yeah I prolly heaved it down too tightly? Ugh... lame bs to contend with
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 07-14-2017, 08:19 AM
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As T911S says, don't be afraid to grind down a spanner to fit in that tight spot - consider it sacrificial. Special tool #123b. Got several of those. Not sure if it is leaking at the case or the union. But either way you need to be getting on the nut end on the case. Whatever, to do it proper, you need to drain the case oil, and I would pull the whole fitting if unsure where is coming from. If union I would support the case nut and open union completely and check for nicks, alignment etc and re seal. It should seal if not damaged. If is case end check tightness in case first - may just be loose. That will give you an idea how tight to nip up later. But I would remove completely, clean up oil, apply sealant or sealing tape, and re fit, maybe slightly tighter than before. Can't remember if has crush washer - prob has. New washer. If using seal tape make sure none is exposed to the oil - threads only.
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 07-14-2017, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krasuskyp View Post
. . . the ginormous . . . 'nut' (queue Rawknees) that goes in . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
. . . you need to be getting on the nut . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff NJ View Post
Paul, have you pulled it . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by krasuskyp View Post
not yet, sounds messy . . .
???

!!!

Old 07-14-2017, 12:13 PM
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Well done, Senor 'Knees!

And... tx, Alan! Will do....
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 07-14-2017, 12:21 PM
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The other thing you could do - depending where the leak is - is put a small smear of gasket gunk either side of the crush washer before replacing the case fitting. It depends if it leaking from the case or the union bit. If it is the case, I would remove and clean the area where the washer sits - assuming there is one. Run a very fine wet/dry over the seating area (stuff a clean piece of rag in the case hole and flush the area down after with brake Kleen before removing rag). Small bit of gasket goo (I would use same as on cam case/heads) before nipping the washer up.
If it is the union bit, check there is no score line on the seating face of the case bit. If it is over tightened and out of alignment it may happen. Again you could try and polish the seating face while the case fitting is out, with some 1200 wet/dry, in case any imperfection. Then same for the pipe fitting end - polish the ball, lightly. I would stuff a small piece of rag up the pipe before, wash down with brake kleen again before removing rag. I had a fitting like that on the oil tank that was leaking. Did as above. But when I nipped the union together I wriggled it around as it was seating, nip small amt again, wriggle again, until it finds its best seating point.
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 07-16-2017, 02:25 PM
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thanks Alan - dumb question... is there supposed to be a crush washer under that fitting? I'd 'thought' it was a ball / compression fitting?

soooo... yeah... thanks yet again to AlfaJohn, my charging issue is solved

engine earth strap... not even finger tight at the chassis end

got it up on his lift which allowed visibility to the other end of the ground strap, jacked up in my garage I couldn't get far enough under there to see that

love me a free easy fix! Thanks as always John!

now to hope for the same for the oil line case fitting...
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 07-17-2017, 06:31 AM
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I remember dealing with that big nut using a big crescent wrench while on my back under the car.
An oil return tube was in the way of turning the wrench jaws but it's doable. If you have removable oil return tubes you can remove the snap ring from it's groove and compress the tube to remove it so you have more wrenching room.
Best way I've found to compress that type of oil return tube is remove the lower rocker cover and remove the snap ring from it's groove. Then you can compress the oil return tube from inside the cam tower with the handle of some screwdrivers.

If you have one piece oil return tubes obviously they don't compress. If there's no way to turn that nut with that type of return tube in the way take some big channel locks and squish it and carefully bend it so you can pry it out of there.
Then replace it with a two piece compressable oil return tube with the red or green o-rings on the inner tube. Oil the o-ring first so it slides on the inside diameter of the larger half of the oil return tube or it will be almost impossible expanding it by hand with installed cam towers.
Good luck with it.

I've used gasket sealer on the threads of the big nut and the fitting under it to keep oil from seeping out there.
Old 07-17-2017, 08:45 AM
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thanks Jimbo - great suggestions as always and super cool to still see you here HELPING

I'll start w/ the thread sealer and if not - then yes I've got collapsible tubez
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 07-17-2017, 11:08 AM
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