Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Reuben.L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wellington New Zealand
Posts: 44
930 4 speed measurement please

Hi All,
I am trying to get a 930 back together that has been off the road for many years.
The current struggle is with the clutch assembly...
The ring gear is rubbing against the inside of the bell housing when it is all bolted up.
I am running an early style clutch with the ring gear spacer etc but do not think that is my issue.
Does anyone have a late 4 speed (long bellhousing) on a shelf in the garage that they can take a measurement for me please...
I have measured across where the starter bolts up and get 116.9mm, As shown in picture below
I am slightly suspicious that this one has been trimmed a small amount as it has all been fitted into a 1970 tub.

Any help much appreciated,
Cheers
Reuben
Old 07-25-2017, 07:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
gearhead
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Loverland, CO
Posts: 12,263
Looks trimmed to me.
__________________
1974 911 Restorod
1974 914 Bumble Bee
2008 Cayman S Mule
Old 07-26-2017, 07:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
LSR911
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 228
What year 930 are you working on? That looks like a short bell housing from 76-77 or a shortened
87-88. What is the SN# on the bottom? Also a picture of the inside of the bell housing would help. I have a few I can measure when I can get to my storage.

LSR911
Old 07-26-2017, 09:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TurboKraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,343
That distance should be 117mm, from the engine mounting to starter mounting. I just measured two transmissions here, got 117.04mm and 117.10mm on the other.
I do not think yours has been modified.

Let's see a photo of the inside of the transmission bell housing and your clutch stack.
__________________
Chris Carroll
TurboKraft, Inc.
Tel. 480.969.0911
email: info@turbokraft.com
http://www.facebook.com/TurboKraft - http://www.instagram.com/TurboKraft
Old 07-26-2017, 10:48 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Brando
 
quattrorunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las vegas
Posts: 5,538
Garage
The difference is very small. Don't you think that's within margins for caliper error? I can't imagine anyone would mod for 1/2mm
__________________
Turbo powa!
1977 911s. it's cool
Old 07-26-2017, 11:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TurboKraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,343
Quote:
Originally Posted by quattrorunner View Post
The difference is very small. Don't you think that's within margins for caliper error? I can't imagine anyone would mod for 1/2mm
Yes, within measuring error for sure.
That's why I mostly suspect the clutch stack, ex: possibly having the wrong ring gear.
__________________
Chris Carroll
TurboKraft, Inc.
Tel. 480.969.0911
email: info@turbokraft.com
http://www.facebook.com/TurboKraft - http://www.instagram.com/TurboKraft
Old 07-26-2017, 12:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Now Available for Ordering:   101 Projects For Your BMW 3 Series 1982-2000  [more info]
Registered User
 
Reuben.L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wellington New Zealand
Posts: 44
Thanks guys,
So the bell housing looks standard depth then.
Here is a photo of the offending area inside the bellhousing...



I can still turn over the motor, i could just hear a slight scratching noise and am getting some metal shavings in this area.

The clutch stack measures 80mm from the back of the engine.


I have a brand new ring gear here 930 116 230 02 which measures the same as the one on the engine.

The pressure plate is the early 934 style sachs performance plate, with the required ring gear spacer. When measured it is the same as the original boat anchor pressure plate.



I did discover some small burrs on the ring gear and am now replacing it but i cant imagine Porsche only allowing a fraction of a millimeter here as clearance in this area.

Are there any other flywheels that could have been used but are slightly wrong dimensions? SC etc? Ill have to pull it off again to check part numbers.

I was assured this ran before but I think this whole car was built using the cast offs from a wreckers yard. I have spent hours and hours trying to figure out what has been fitted and why in some of the areas on this car.

Chris...
I did try and get in touch with you numerous times after our phone chat but heard nothing...

Thanks
Reuben
Old 07-26-2017, 03:34 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ivanuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 220
While on topic of 4 speed turbo transmision does anyone can confirm if we are missing a spacer that my mechanic tells me that goes in between the inner shaft and the shaft retainer. I do not see it on the parts diagram, thanks and sorry for the intrussion. But since is transmision related ?
__________________
79 SC Back to Basics!
2006 997 C2s Cabrio - Sold
1999 996 C2 - Sold
Old 07-26-2017, 05:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TurboKraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reuben.L View Post
Thanks guys,
So the bell housing looks standard depth then.
Here is a photo of the offending area inside the bellhousing...

I can still turn over the motor, i could just hear a slight scratching noise and am getting some metal shavings in this area.

The clutch stack measures 80mm from the back of the engine.
I have a brand new ring gear here 930 116 230 02 which measures the same as the one on the engine.

The pressure plate is the early 934 style sachs performance plate, with the required ring gear spacer. When measured it is the same as the original boat anchor pressure plate.


I did discover some small burrs on the ring gear and am now replacing it but i cant imagine Porsche only allowing a fraction of a millimeter here as clearance in this area.

Are there any other flywheels that could have been used but are slightly wrong dimensions? SC etc? Ill have to pull it off again to check part numbers.

I was assured this ran before but I think this whole car was built using the cast offs from a wreckers yard. I have spent hours and hours trying to figure out what has been fitted and why in some of the areas on this car.

Chris...
I did try and get in touch with you numerous times after our phone chat but heard nothing...

Thanks
Reuben
Hi Reuben
I am really sorry about not following up on our conversation, just got too busy with projects. :-\ Trying to be better about that, bring on another experienced Porsche guy to keep us caught up.

In that photo of the clutch stack:
1. You have the wrong ring gear. The correct 1978-88 version has 9x small holes only, #930-116-230-03 (old part number 930-116- 230-02)
2. The socket head cap screws are incorrect, and usually the head is too tall and hits the bell housing. The correct original bolts are M8x1.25x80mm hex head, with thin wave washers.
__________________
Chris Carroll
TurboKraft, Inc.
Tel. 480.969.0911
email: info@turbokraft.com
http://www.facebook.com/TurboKraft - http://www.instagram.com/TurboKraft
Old 07-27-2017, 10:07 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Reuben.L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wellington New Zealand
Posts: 44
Ivan- I dont remember there being any spacer or shim in the location you have photographed when i had this gearbox apart. The clutch guide tube holds in the input shaft sealing tube. I may be wrong as I am no 4 speed expert.

Chris - While the issues you highlight are correct, I did not think they were my issue. I have one of those ring gears here new to fit and it it dimensionally identical, just doesnt have the extra 3 holes for the clutch drive pins. The bolt holes on this one have also been recessed to counter the issue you mentioned. Not ideal but does the job.

I have found a problem with the flywheel...
But it starts with the jigsaw puzzle of an engine. This engine has un numbered 1989 cases. Most likely a replacement due to being damaged but there are some rumours that this engine came from Andial so maybe they started with new cases back in their peak? I had guessed that was why the crank did not have the 3 mounting holes for the normal spigot bearing on these engines, however...
Yesterday i found an old 78- 930 flywheel with the small pressed in spigot bearing in our boxes of worn out crap (being a hoarder does pay off sometimes) and when compared to the flywheel currently fitted to the engine, puts the whole clutch assembly around 1.3mm closer to the engine.
That puts the ring gear at a more acceptable clearance from the bellhousing.
So... Is the flywheel off something else? Late sc? I have found they have 225mm clutches i think? All 3.2's need speed references I think? A dud machining?

Anyway the flywheel i found is too cracked through the friction face to use so I think i wil end up having the flywheel to crank mounting face machined off 1.3mm to match the original one and hope that is the solution on this issue.

The 2 flywheels. Please excuse the 3 bolts holding the spigot bearing in, it was a previous mechaincs solution and in hindsight should have been more of a red flag, but it does the job.


And bolted up with the original style flywheel, doesnt look like much, but I think this is the clearance as designed.


Thoughts?

Reuben

PS, while I realise I hardly contribute to this forum, I do read all your guys threads far too much and have taken a lot of information and inspiration from the work all of you do, both the professionals like chris etc, and the "DIY ers" who would put most professionals to shame. Keep up the good work.
Old 07-27-2017, 02:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ivanuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 220
Thanks for your help!
__________________
79 SC Back to Basics!
2006 997 C2s Cabrio - Sold
1999 996 C2 - Sold
Old 07-27-2017, 04:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TurboKraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,343
Reuben -- is there a difference on the outer lip of the flywheel? Or the area where the pressure plate mounts?
I'm wondering if you have a 1989 Turbo flywheel, which gets a G50 pressure pate.
__________________
Chris Carroll
TurboKraft, Inc.
Tel. 480.969.0911
email: info@turbokraft.com
http://www.facebook.com/TurboKraft - http://www.instagram.com/TurboKraft
Old 07-27-2017, 04:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Reuben.L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wellington New Zealand
Posts: 44
I'm sure your right Chris. I hadnt seen a G50 930 flywheel before but it would make sense.
There are some small differences, but the clutch bolts up properly and seems to locate in the flywheel OK.
I just dropped it off at the machinist and he is going to take a small amount off the back of the flywheel to put it in the same place as the 930 one.
So unless there is a change to the back of the crank also then hopefully it will be all sorted.
It does look as it there has been ongoing issues with this as the bellhousing is ground out much more than the half dozen or so turns I did by hand could cause, and the PP bolt heads have obviously got jammed before also.

I had been calling this car a Hot rod untill the owner took offence, but what do you call a 70 tub, 930 bodywork, trans, suspension, brakes, aluminium oil tank (never seen that before), andial bits, efi now... frankenstein maybe?

Hopefully one day soon it will run.
Old 07-27-2017, 08:13 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,809
Hi Reuben. Welcome to the real world - the 930 forum.
These guys will put you right. For sure.
You are @ Powerhaus Wgtn - right?
Regards
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 07-28-2017, 12:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Reuben.L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wellington New Zealand
Posts: 44
Hi Alan,
Yes at Powerhaus, although there are 2 of us. Reuben Smith is the owner of the business, I have worked there for a long time though.
Your car looks like a beast, do you run in the Porsche series?

Cheers
Old 07-28-2017, 01:26 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,809
It is a beast. I haven't run in P series - usually Classic. But been slack lately - out of country too much. It is on trailer now, ready to go - new P/Cs, and 7006 turbo. Basically 'S' spec.
Good luck on the bitsa project. Always a challenge starting from there.
The guys here will see you right.
Think I met Reuben#1 when John had the business - sound right?
Regards
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 07-28-2017, 02:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Reuben.L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wellington New Zealand
Posts: 44
yes most likely, although I did work for john for 6 or so years before he sold.

Not sure what your NZ racing history is like but apparently this was Dr John Elliots car which did various race series in the 80's/90's i think.
Old 07-28-2017, 02:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Brando
 
quattrorunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las vegas
Posts: 5,538
Garage
I'd like to know how you're fitting that gearbox into that chassis? I had to find a short 930 to make it fit easily.....
__________________
Turbo powa!
1977 911s. it's cool
Old 07-28-2017, 09:48 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reuben.L View Post
yes most likely, although I did work for john for 6 or so years before he sold.

Not sure what your NZ racing history is like but apparently this was Dr John Elliots car which did various race series in the 80's/90's i think.
Yes, I know John. He sold his '930' to buy an XU1. I sold my XU1 to buy a 930. We have swapped notes, and I helped him out at the track once with his XU1. I wondered what happened to his car.
Good luck. The guys on this forum are awesome. I doubt you will find anything these guys have not 'been there done that' before.
Regards
Alan
PS, if you make it to Hawkes Bay sometime, give me a call - welcome to come around. 06 8454318
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)

Last edited by Alan L; 07-28-2017 at 01:04 PM..
Old 07-28-2017, 12:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Reuben.L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wellington New Zealand
Posts: 44
Quattro runner...
Most of the work to get the engine and gearbox to fit had been carried out a long time ago, mid-late 80's i think. I suspect they had a whole donor car as there was hardly any give away that it was a 71 car. The rear cross member has been modified and the engine mounts moved back quite far, I think like the factory did. I have not had a original 930 at work in a while to compare.

Alan,
Would be great to hear some more of the history on this car. Ill try and get some pictures up of how it is now and what we have been up to.

I got the flywheel back from the machinist today. Bolted it all up and I am happy with where it all sits so hopefully thats the clutch ticked off.

Cheers
Reuben
Old 07-31-2017, 03:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:25 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2016 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.