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Turbofrog
 
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Tunerstudio e85 settings

So I got my first smokes out of the new fuel only e85 ms3pro. It needed a lot of cranking and throttle to start but my maps are guestimates at this time as there is no info here on e85 settings yet?

1. Stoich setting and target afr: if I choose 9.8 stoich do I have to alter target maps to mach taht 9.8 stoich? If I keep the 14.7 stoich does TS (tunerstudio) handle the correct afr if I keep the 14.7 afr target maps. Iirc innovate wb does not care what fuel you have if you keep your mindset with 14.7 stoich for gas.

2. Startup and warmup maps: how much over 93 octane ? My wb read really rich on my guestimate settings but which maps to modify?

3. I assume I cant use livetune on coldstarts?

I dont have idle valve. Id1000 injectors, electrical distributor, msd6a, resistorless plugs (interesting to see if fuel only can handle those)

Any help is really appreciated
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79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs
Old 08-05-2017, 10:42 AM
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are you using a flex fuel sensor? if so why don't you go to the Flexfuel tab, and add an additional 40% fuel as an adder. Thats how i do it, and never had any issues. Runs great on 93, and on e85. I know a lot of other people have an e85 tune, and a 93 tune, and megasquirt will interpolate between the 2. I use the standard gasoline scale on my wideband.
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1979 911SC widebody conversion. 3.1 engine, 3.2 liter heads, carrera intake, Microsquirt V3 ECU, K27 7200 High flow turbo, Tial F41 wastegate, Ford EDIS. .7 bar. 402hp 360tq
Old 08-05-2017, 11:11 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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No flex sensor so far. So you dont use any extra fuel for cold starts. What kind of atmo temps do you have over there. We have from 10 c to 25c .
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79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs
Old 08-05-2017, 12:00 PM
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My warmup enrichment table is almost dead flat running e85 for whatever reason. I have not went 93 octane in a long time, but when I do, I have to run the warm up enrichment wizard to get it good. Temps here are usually low 30sF to high 90s in the summer. Word of caution, without a flex fuel sensor, you will have to fine tune it every time you fill up. Here in the states, e85 is somewhere between 70% ethanol in the winter, and close to 80% in the summer. It is rarely the same ethanol content from fill up to fill up.
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1979 911SC widebody conversion. 3.1 engine, 3.2 liter heads, carrera intake, Microsquirt V3 ECU, K27 7200 High flow turbo, Tial F41 wastegate, Ford EDIS. .7 bar. 402hp 360tq

Last edited by scottrx7tt; 08-05-2017 at 12:19 PM..
Old 08-05-2017, 12:15 PM
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I left mine at 14.7 stoich and increased the required fuel. What size injector are you running?
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Old 08-05-2017, 12:30 PM
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Turbofrog
 
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1000cc from injector dynamics. Our e85 is very stable on summertime.
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79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs
Old 08-05-2017, 12:54 PM
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Turbofrog
 
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Is there a way to import individual maps from other tune in TS?

Compare only lets you import all the differences.

Edit: It seems the load dialog settings does that.
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79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs

Last edited by smurfbus; 08-06-2017 at 12:45 AM..
Old 08-06-2017, 12:15 AM
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Hello,

Of memory(report) it seems to me to have read on this forum that the ideal for E85 is to have injectors ID1300. The internal body is more in stainless steel.
Your subject interests me, I wish you good luck for the continuation(suite) of your driving regulation in E85. ;-)

Pat
Old 08-06-2017, 03:16 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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yes, the ID1300 is the premium choice but more dollares. I've done fine with my audi with non ID 1000cc injectors for about 7 yrs now.

Dialing idle at the garage is painfull and takes a long time for me as I plan to only use my hand throttle for idle control. I might have to reconsider idle valve. Also live tuner is havin hickups as the afr jump to too lean before it can react and goes filtered mode. Being different does mean trouble it seems, hah.
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79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs
Old 08-06-2017, 05:28 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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Where is the overrun setting in TS? I keep getting overrun filter on warmup enrichment wizard so it does not do its job to lean the curves! The VE fuel wizard works better with the same rich values?
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79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs
Old 08-06-2017, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
yes, the ID1300 is the premium choice but more dollares. I've done fine with my audi with non ID 1000cc injectors for about 7 yrs now.

Dialing idle at the garage is painfull and takes a long time for me as I plan to only use my hand throttle for idle control. I might have to reconsider idle valve. Also live tuner is havin hickups as the afr jump to too lean before it can react and goes filtered mode. Being different does mean trouble it seems, hah.
In France (6) ID1300 cost approximately 1200, expensive but our cars have right for quality products!
Old 08-07-2017, 12:37 AM
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1. 14.7 just translates into stoch. Leave that alone in TS. If E85 is actually calculated at 9.8:1 for stoch, your wide band will display "14.7", thus TS will display that too.

2. I heard you need ~40% additional fuel with E85 over gasoline.

3. Not sure?
Old 08-07-2017, 05:02 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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At the moment I'm really strugling to get my warm up to anything usable. Its mostly really rich at 8afr and I have my enrichment tables already low.

Warmup wizard does not do anything as I need to keep revving the engine so it does not stall. 3000rmp I can hold steady but anything lower stalls. I will turn throttle idle screw for higher idle if it helps stalling.

On test drive I could run easy 2nd gear 2000 rpms but more revs hopped to over 20afr so again livetune filters those and is useless. Sometimes afr hovers around 30 but engine runs so maybe even a bad sensor is possible but IIRC it is pretty new.

Where do your ctl settle? Mine stays around 63 when oil is at 180f. After drive it raised to 90c /heatsoak. I just installed another sensor for ctl So lets see how it works.

I have my timing set 20 level to ease fuel mapping. Idle is at 14 and 18 at 500 for catching stalls.
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79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs
Old 08-07-2017, 11:26 AM
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Sounds like you need to either change the required fuel parameters, or take a bunch of fuel out on your VE chart
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Old 08-07-2017, 12:11 PM
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Turbofrog
 
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I think the ve table needs much lower numbers near idle. I have the exact dead time and small pulse specs from ID.
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79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs
Old 08-07-2017, 12:36 PM
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Turbofrog
 
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Ctl is good now with new sensor but warm up still too rich even though I have low numbers on acl and wue.

Warm IDLE KPA is high IMO. Rpm 1300 MAP 66 kpa, does that sound too high considering the high idle?
TAKE NOTE that my 964 cams are diealed for max low torque at 1.96mm.
Other threads I have read most have idle around 30-50kpa. My MAP is taken from the t-ports behind the throttle.

I dont have exel skill or sw on my tablets so how does the specs of my MAP Sensor convert to tunerstudio values? TS HAS ZERO AND 5 volts but my sensor has 0.3-4.9V (3bar) and 20-304kPa so I need those correct. Now I have 10kpa for zero and 310 for 5v.
****************
EDIT: somehow I got this via some formulas:
0V=1.47
5V=308.7
Lets see if that makes any difference in idle kpa
*************

Take off /off idle is horrible now, I need 3000 rpms to get going or it will stump. Cruising is fine but WTF is that overrun filter I keep seeing time to time? My overrun is disabled and ego setup has very low restrictions if that matters. I have set the wb range from min to max 7 to 25.

TIA
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79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs

Last edited by smurfbus; 08-08-2017 at 08:12 AM..
Old 08-08-2017, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
Where is the overrun setting in TS? I keep getting overrun filter on warmup enrichment wizard so it does not do its job to lean the curves! The VE fuel wizard works better with the same rich values?
Not sure if you figured this out already, but there is an engine state settings page that allows you to adjust the parameters for different engine states, overrun being one of them. They added it in the new firmware and I had the same issue when I upgraded.
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Old 08-08-2017, 09:59 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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overrun is at the fuel settings menu but I have it disabled? now the ignition took a dump. car started to buck and bang very lean. before that earlier I ad zeroed the TS ignition tables set fixed timing with zero and dwells to min and such and it started to run terribly? Reverting to older config helped then. I thought when I run tach out with fixed zero timing sentto my MSD those are not used but I guess they are or my plugs got fouled or the tank run empty but 1.5 liter did not help.

The ugly thing is my garage is below some apartments so running rich at the garage is bad as the fumes get to those apartments.
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79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs

Last edited by smurfbus; 08-08-2017 at 10:51 AM..
Old 08-08-2017, 10:28 AM
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You have to tune the car now that it is running.

Start with adjusting fuel until the car will idle. low vacuum at idle for these cams fits the fact that your car will not idle smoothly and you are getting a false reading of what the actual idle MAP reading will be. Forget the AFR reading at the moment and determine if the car is rich or lean. If rich you will have near raw fuel and horrible emissions out the tail pipe. If lean it will just sputter and not want to run. You can make gross changes to the entire fuel table by adjusting the req_fuel parameter in setup. You can also make changes to the fuel table by manually adjusting the VE table value.

Once the car will idle smoothly note the AFR that gives you the lowest MAP reading for a particular RPM. This should be your initial target AFR for the rest of the tune process.

Move from idle to free-rev, no load bins and adjust the fuel trim. This will be an arc across the VE table. Next, scale outside this arc to blend the fuel trim and the car should be driveable.

Simply put. Go tune the car now. Its a methodical process. Give it as much fuel as it wants/needs to run smoothly under light load and cruise. Then work on higher rpm and boost bins.
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Old 08-08-2017, 11:06 AM
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Turbofrog
 
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Idle is fine on hot engine and about 66kpa.

Cold start still starts really rich at 8afr. My engine settings required fuel is 3.7 and 1.23ms for 1000cc injectors at 14.7 stoich.

So should I lower that 3.7 instead of VE-table? wue and ase are really low already. temps in Celcius
ase
-12 45
-1 43
10 41
21 30
30 24
46 22
55 22
66 20
77 20
93 20

wue
-34.4 255
-23.5 252
-11.2 229
-3.2 213
7.2 194
20.8 166
36.1 137
64.5 100
109.9 100
160.0 100
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79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs
Old 08-08-2017, 12:32 PM
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