Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Armed Bastard
 
djb25's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: North Central PA
Posts: 354
Blue exhaust flame at idle?

So I知 still working on my 2.7l turbo conversion. I知 at the tuning phase, and I noticed something odd the other night.

At idle, I have a blue flame out the exhaust...

Not orange, blue. Like a jet engine or a torch or something.

According to my LC-2, my car is idling between 13.5 and 14.0.



Not the best picture, but it should give you the general idea.

The flame isn稚 visible in daylight or with the garage lights on. It痴 very visible in the dark.

Anyone ever see this? I知 thinking my lc-2 is giving me false readings?
__________________
Damion
'77 911S Turbo, EFI 2.7l, Carrera intake, Megasquirt 3 with MS3x, Fuel & Ignition
Old 08-22-2017, 06:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
T77911S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MYR S.C.
Posts: 10,049
cool!

CIS or EFI?
__________________
86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 08-22-2017, 08:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jeff NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NW NJ
Posts: 1,153
Quote:
Originally Posted by T77911S View Post
cool!

CIS or EFI?
His signature says EFI.


That is cool looking. I wonder what it does off throttle?
__________________
1988 930 Venetian Blue
Old 08-22-2017, 08:17 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Brando
 
quattrorunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las vegas
Posts: 5,696
Garage
Awesome.
__________________
Turbo powa!
1977 911s. it's cool
Old 08-22-2017, 08:24 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,470
Garage
I'm thinking blue is going to be lean mixture or alcohol in the fuel
Old 08-22-2017, 08:26 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Armed Bastard
 
djb25's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: North Central PA
Posts: 354
Off throttle?

Well, it was shooting what I can only assume was a massive flame. I don't have a passenger side mirror, so I couldn't actually see it, but I did notice that the berm of the highway was lighting up like there was a spotlight somewhere. I made a few changes in tuner studio and that's gone away, but the idle flame is still there.

No alcohol or methanol injection, and I'm running 93 pump gas. So I imagine it is around 10% alcohol?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Damion
'77 911S Turbo, EFI 2.7l, Carrera intake, Megasquirt 3 with MS3x, Fuel & Ignition
Old 08-22-2017, 08:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
dos531's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Rowland Heights, CA
Posts: 687
Garage
How much timing are you running at idle?
__________________
'86 930 Guards Red - EFI MS3Pro, 80lb inj, 3.4, GT35R, Tial 46, Bosch 044, B&B Headers, 3.2 carrera manifold, Turbokraft Full bay IC
'01 996tt
Ducati 748R
Old 08-22-2017, 08:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
flat6pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bonney Lake, Wa
Posts: 792
Garage
Wow, even with a muffler on and everything?
__________________
-Kyle
* 1980 911SC - 3.0l R.o.W 8.6:1 w/ Garrett 30R turbo conversion (.5 bar), Bitz MS-II EFI, Carerra intake, Zork tube, 2300lbs, 360whp
Old 08-22-2017, 08:49 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Turbo Powered Snow Blower
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA .... Galveston, TX
Posts: 2,352
Garage
What I think is happening is due to a combination of things. The idle mixture is a little rich and you have unburned fuel going through a stainless exhaust, stainless retains heat better than steel, and the exhaust is very short and close to the hot turbo after a drive.
So the super heated, unburned fuel is igniting when it is reintroduced to oxygen at the tip. Similar to how a cat converter works.

The end result is awesome!!
__________________
Derrick
Old 08-22-2017, 09:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TurboKraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,493
Verify your ignition timing with a timing light.
Last time we saw something like that, the previous tuner had done initial setup wrong and the timing was off 17deg.
__________________
Chris Carroll
TurboKraft, Inc.
Tel. 480.969.0911
email: info@turbokraft.com
http://www.facebook.com/TurboKraft - http://www.instagram.com/TurboKraft
Old 08-22-2017, 09:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
T77911S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MYR S.C.
Posts: 10,049
too advanced I bet.
__________________
86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 08-22-2017, 10:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Armed Bastard
 
djb25's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: North Central PA
Posts: 354
Thanks for the advice, everyone. I have megasquirt controlling timing, with ls2 coils. I think the timing is set somewhere around 8 degrees before tdp at idle.

I’ll double-check the timing again tonight.

The exhaust is pretty short, it’s a magnaflow oval muffler that I copied off of a car that Chris posted a while back. Way quieter than I was expecting.
__________________
Damion
'77 911S Turbo, EFI 2.7l, Carrera intake, Megasquirt 3 with MS3x, Fuel & Ignition
Old 08-22-2017, 12:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
'76 911S 3.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 738
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by T77911S View Post
too advanced I bet.
Too retarded, not advanced.
__________________
-Jayson
1976 911S Signature Edition
3.2SSt (JE 98mm 9.5:1 pistons, 964 Cams, ARP Rod Bolts, Big Port SC Heads, 3.2 Carrera Manifold, ID725's, B&B Headers, Tial 44mm, TS RacePort, BW S360, AEM Infinity 506, E85)
IG: Signature_911
Old 08-22-2017, 12:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mark houghton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Central Washington State
Posts: 3,742
Opposing views....I love it! Advanced, or are you too retarded? (not speaking personally of anyone). Let's do a poll: My vote is on retarded, only because that's how they set the later years in order to increase exhaust gas temperatures and make the cat converters more efficient when sitting at idle. Way too retarded may mean a pretty hot muffler tip, enough to support an after-burner effect. Surprised it's not an orange flame, though. Must just be the 10% booze in the fuel.
Just my 2 pennies worth; and worth just about that much.
__________________
Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.
Old 08-22-2017, 05:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 885
Garage
I would have to agree... too retarded. That would allow more unburnt gas into the exhaust system.

Rahl
Old 08-22-2017, 06:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: DC
Posts: 1,172
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark houghton View Post
Opposing views....I love it! Advanced, or are you too retarded? (not speaking personally of anyone). Let's do a poll: My vote is on retarded, only because that's how they set the later years in order to increase exhaust gas temperatures and make the cat converters more efficient when sitting at idle. Way too retarded may mean a pretty hot muffler tip, enough to support an after-burner effect. Surprised it's not an orange flame, though. Must just be the 10% booze in the fuel.
Just my 2 pennies worth; and worth just about that much.
plus 1,

My yellow car did the same thing, the timing was retarded, my heat exchangers would glow orange also and the blue flame while driving, not at idle, which looked awesome. but not good for the turbo or other parts i'm sure.
__________________
1986 944 turbo -first car
1997 993 Cab 6 speed-sold
1992 964 C2 turbo
SOLD, 911GT ,CIS, 428 fwhp 450 trq, Carrillo rods, 964 cams, TT retainers,7.5 comp 1.1 bar boost 320 ml black fuel head 009 injectors, 044 pumps, 60-1 T4/T3 dual scroll turbo
Old 08-22-2017, 06:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,224
Good thing the turbo exhaust valves are sodium filled.
Advance the idle timing and it'll run more efficiant with better throttle response and power, all that good stuff.
The steady flame blowing out the exhaust is not good and the heat energy wasted there could be used during combustion making more power if timing was right.
Old 08-22-2017, 07:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,190
Valve timing? Just to throw something different in the mix. Now 3 opposing views. If that is possible.
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 08-22-2017, 11:53 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,318
x3 on the retarded timing. Anti-lag for a turbo drag car retards timing and adds fuel to get the boost in earlier at the line by burning more fuel in the exhaust and less in the cylinder, raises EGT. Tough on the turbo for a street car though.
Old 08-23-2017, 03:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Armed Bastard
 
djb25's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: North Central PA
Posts: 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
Valve timing? Just to throw something different in the mix. Now 3 opposing views. If that is possible.
Alan
I wonder if this could be the problem? I checked the crank timing last night using my digital timing light and it appears to be correct.

I知 starting to suspect cam timing now. I have noticed that the plugs on the left bank seem wet while the right bank looks perfect... I did have a chain tensioner collapse maybe 15 years ago, maybe the chain jumped a tooth?

Is it possible that the cam timing is more of an issue now that I turbocharged the motor?
__________________
Damion
'77 911S Turbo, EFI 2.7l, Carrera intake, Megasquirt 3 with MS3x, Fuel & Ignition
Old 08-23-2017, 11:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:05 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.