Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Brando
 
quattrorunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Las vegas
Posts: 5,544
Garage
I was just about to type "sure you can while it's still in the car" but Ronnie makes a good point about corrosion and stuff. I did mine with only a few miles on it. It was not that hard for that reason but yours isn't the same situation exactly. The video looks like it's only side to side and some lash maybe. I'd say try and get the valves right and see.
__________________
Turbo powa!
1977 911s. it's cool
Old 09-30-2017, 11:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
Knee Pads are Overrated!
 
Rawknees'Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Norf TexASS
Posts: 7,063
^^^

Plus you've got a shart-ton of experience wrenching on these, Brandon - Steve's no dummy, but this is pretty new to him (right, Steve?) . . . aka - tough job for a semi-newb (different than semi-nude)!
Old 09-30-2017, 11:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
Knee Pads are Overrated!
 
Rawknees'Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Norf TexASS
Posts: 7,063
Hey Steve, can you look at the end cap of the rocker shaft that is closest to the oil cooler - maybe use a small mirror or something, and verify that its position looks like the others?
Old 09-30-2017, 11:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
SBK930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Australia / Straya
Posts: 259
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
Steve, I just looked at your vid - more than ten years ago, my 930's engine had a troubling noise (sounded like a marble bouncing on a steel plate), and at one point, I found that exact same thing you have with that rocker (even the same rocker on my engine), thought, "I found the problem", went to all the trouble of replacing the rocker and shaft with new parts, only to find the same amount of side to side play, and the noise was not eliminated.

So what I'm saying is, that if the rocker is not flopping around on the shaft (like its bushing is severely worn out of round), I would leave it alone.

It is a bad enough job to replace the rockers and shafts with the engine on a stand (mainly due to limited space for tools and the fact that the shaft fasteners will likely be difficult to remove due to corrosion) - would be a nightmare with engine still in the car. For example, one of the allen bolts on mine immediately rounded - no way to get a drill in there to drill the head off, so a mechanic friend of mine had the brilliant idea to drive a shotened allen bit into the remains of the bolt head with an air hammer while turning the 1/4 drive ratchet at the same time, and it worked. Imagine trying that with the engine in the car!

If it were mine, I would do a valve lash measurement on all the valves, adjusting only the ones that were necessary, and then monitor the noise and oil leak. The "backside method" for measuring lash works very well and allows you to use regular feeler blades (no special tool required). There is a Pelican tech article on this method, plus lots of help available here, buttofcourse.

Maybe you could put the cover back on, run the engine and try to take a video of the noise?
"Holy sheep sheet batman"

OK there is no way I can see me being able to do this on the car.
I shortened an allen wrench to get it between the oil cooler and the rocker housing and those suckers just would not budge.
I will get it back together and do my best to record what is going on however I am not sure if the knock/clack clack will be heard over the engine sound.
Thanks a heap rawknees.
Steve.
Old 09-30-2017, 11:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
SBK930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Australia / Straya
Posts: 259
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
Hey Steve, can you look at the end cap of the rocker shaft that is closest to the oil cooler - maybe use a small mirror or something, and verify that its position looks like the others?
The third pic is of that end nut which does look to be a little further out, maybe by 1mm.
I will try to measure the difference in case the pic is deceiving.
Old 10-01-2017, 09:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
Registered User
 
SBK930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Australia / Straya
Posts: 259
Garage
Clacking noise

Spent more time under the 930 today resulting in a couple of things.

1. I was able to tighten the shaft nut on the lower rocker where the oil appeared to be coming from.
I have run at idle and so far no oil leak

2. I mentioned all but one of the cam lobes looked great with a nice mirror appearance to them.
So when starting cold there is very little clacking noise. However when warming up it becomes louder. Also quickens with some acceleration of the go fast pedal. This noise I feel is coming from the intake of number 4 cylinder as it is louder below the air cond compressor, which is the cam lobe that appeared as if some of the mirror had been scratched off on one side but I would not call it pitted.

At least it feels like I am advancing with getting back on the road.

Any thoughts on the rocker/cam noise if that is what it is ???
Old 10-01-2017, 06:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
Turbofrog
 
smurfbus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,359
Did you check if the #4 cam spray bar opening was ok? If you cant see the holes maybe wipe the cover and put it on and and short start and check if its still clean or cleaner than the other cylinder areas? If #4 is dry it will be noisier and eat the lobe and rocker.
__________________
************************************************** *******************************
79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs
Old 10-01-2017, 08:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
Registered User
 
SBK930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Australia / Straya
Posts: 259
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfbus View Post
Did you check if the #4 cam spray bar opening was ok? If you cant see the holes maybe wipe the cover and put it on and and short start and check if its still clean or cleaner than the other cylinder areas? If #4 is dry it will be noisier and eat the lobe and rocker.
Hi smurfbus,

I looked but I could not see what nor where the spray bar is.
I read a few pelican posts on how to clean it with wire or even a fish hook and to look down the spray bar for contaminants but I am afraid it was lost on me. I remember jfairman posting you can not even see some of these holes.
Seeing though the cam lobe was coated in oil I am blindly hoping it is OK.

I tried the backward gap test and .004 seemed to slide in freely unlike other rockers.
I guess I'm am hoping that like the wife (she who is to be obeyed) said, that it was probably like this prior to the turbo detonation and I am now looking and hearing things that were present prior.

At long last I moved her (930 not the wife) that will cum later (rawknees).
I am probably at my limit to what I can do as to replace cams I understand the engine will have to be removed and with that the breaking of studs, seized bolts would be better done by a craftsman.

I would hope I am able to drive her to a Porsche repairer, which will be some distance for me, but if that is not advised I guess I should truck it.

Anyways here she is ....-.... best I have seen my 930 look in more than a year.
Due to weather I was happy to even drive out of the garage and reverse back in.



Old 10-01-2017, 11:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
Turbofrog
 
smurfbus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,359
Loose lash will sound clacky for sure. If the rocker area was wet I think it sprays there too. The way the rocker moved on the youtube video almost looked like it was a worn out inner barrel. That is IF it moved/bend also up and down not just sideways.
__________________
************************************************** *******************************
79 930: HX40S#16, MS3pro+ID1000+044+E85, Ignition: 123/TUNE/MSD6A, True split BB, 2*turbosmart38,
99 Audi S4: RS4 engine/E85/K24brids, KW3, Movit+RS6 discs
Old 10-02-2017, 03:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 329
Garage
Steve,

Another thing you can check is the adjuster itself. I had a ticking sound on #3 cylinder that I played with for years after I rebuilt my engine. I had adjusted the valves several times the standard way to no avail. I looked for an exhaust leak but could not find one. When I had the engine out for a clutch change I decided to investigate the rockers on this cylinder. I removed the intake and exhaust rocker shafts to inspect for wear. They were fine, no visible wear. The rockers fit the shafts correctly, no looseness so the bushing were OK. The only thing I could see was that one swivel cup of the adjuster on the exhaust side rocker arm was much looser than the intake. It made a clicking noise checking the cup for up/down slop. So, I bought a couple of new adjusters (expensive for what they are). I only needed one, but it was good that I bought two because one of the "new" ones was as loose as the old one. Anyway, I replaced the adjuster with a good one and adjusted the valves using the "backside" method. Now the tick is gone, the cylinder sounds the same as the others. I think the new adjuster and adjusting the valves using the "backside" method fixed this for me. Not saying this will fix your problem, but it is worth looking at.
__________________
-Dennis
1977 930 Slant, MS3 EFI, Carrera intake, Twin plug, Powerhaus headers, Magnaflow muffler, Garretson intercooler, GTX3071R
Old 10-02-2017, 09:45 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #30 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 616
Also, nice H. Rider Haggard reference.
Old 10-02-2017, 02:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #31 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,826
Steve, the sideways play is not an issue. That is controlled by the web castings the rocker sits between. I haven't played your vid (limited internet). But I doubt the pitting on cam lobe is the noise
Unless severe and the valve adjust should be wrong. The spray bar is on the inlet side (top). Don't think there is one on bottom - guys? If you are on E side you won't see it. If on I side (top) it is the long tube about 6mm dia. It has holes about 1mm dia above the rockers. You can usually see each hole.
Yes you have to shorten an allen key to get to the one by oil cooler - porsche special tool 97a.
You can free them in place - you just need more crank than the keys will allow. Hint - get a ring spanner - about 10mm, and place the ring over the allen key - you should be cranking on the small one - I think - guys? There is a right and wrong way to do this. Pretty sure small one - is the bolt. You undo the bolt not the keeper. Crank on the ring spanner and .. voila. It will crack open. Yes, you can do this in the car. If that is the issue. You will see there is a thick web and a thin web. Check the difference (eyeball) with the other rocker shafts. See if they are about the same. 1mm is not critical, but getting close - the groove that locks on to the web is close to missing one of the webs = oil leak. There is a method with engine on stand to set these right - feeler gauge down side of rocker feeling for groove as shaft slides in to web. Then push home another 1-2mm (can't remember exactly). No reason why can't do in car.
Regards
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 10-09-2017, 01:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #32 (permalink)
 
Now Available for Ordering:   101 Projects For Your BMW 3 Series 1982-2000  [more info]
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:23 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2017 Pelican Parts LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.