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What do you think will happen to the collector car market....

...or the old car hobby...whether it be Porsche or the market as a whole...as companies like GM announce a move to 100% electric vehicles? And cities like London and countries like China are saying they will ban gas engine cars in then next 10-20 years (or whatever the time frame is)?

Does the demand go way down as fuel become incredibly expensive? Or because of social/environmental pressures? Or does demand go up as people long for real cars, real machines and rarity increases?

Not to mention what self driving cars adds to the mix....

Let's discuss...

Brandon
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Last edited by turbo ride; 10-04-2017 at 08:06 AM..
Old 10-04-2017, 08:04 AM
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I hope that around that same time frame or sooner, that all the fossils that can actually afford these car now start to die off and not many people will want them anymore then I can buy lots at reduced prices
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:14 AM
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its already going that way with oil.
I went in advance the other day to get a qt of oil, NOTHING but 0-30, 5-30 type oils in there,. all new car oil's.
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:27 AM
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What do you think will happen to the collector car market....

There will always be gas for our cars whether it's fossil or we switch to E85.

The collector car hobby is a HUGE billion dollar hobby that spans the globe.

Collector cars will only continue to gain in popularity as they are now considered wheeled art.

Yes collector cars are and always will be greatly sought after like fine art.

They are the art of our generation,life time, millennium.

We will not run out of fossil fuels for another 300 years + then endless amounts of ethanol E85.

Let me say this about china and fossil fuels .. Anything they do is politically motivated.. After all they are and always have been the most polluted country in the world.

Last edited by 93097004xx; 10-04-2017 at 11:33 AM..
Old 10-04-2017, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93097004xx View Post
There will always be gas for our cars whether it's fossil or we switch to E85.

The collector car hobby is a HUGE billion dollar hobby that spans the globe.

Collector cars will only continue to gain in popularity as they are now considered wheeled art.

Yes collector cars are and always will be greatly sought after like fine art.

They are the art of our generation,life time, millennium.

We will not run out of fossil fuels for another 300 years + then endless amounts of ethanol E85.

Let me say this about china and fossil fuels .. Anything they do is politically motivated.. After all they are and always have been the most polluted country in the world.
Agreed on all points.
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:46 AM
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I think the resale market may drop off as younger males will not want older gas engine vehicles and as older males die off. Not sure when. I also think insurance industry will try to price self driving cars off the road and will get politicians to help them.

Once those who choose not to drive and/or do not really like gas vehicles get old enough to carry a vote in Congress and have enough cash to influence markets, I expect we will start to see more "safe" and more "eco friendly" transportation become more prevalent.

On the other hand, there are already kits available to convert my 930 to electric drive, so if I have to, I can keep the car and slide in batteries and a motor and still shift, even. I hope I never have to do this however.
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Old 10-04-2017, 02:11 PM
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people still collect and use fountain pens. theyre just considered pitiable losers who stick with hopelessly outdated equipment and mumble on about how wonderful this pen was back in the day and the skill needed to use it properly.
That will be me.

no offense to anybody who is still into that crap. . .
Old 10-04-2017, 04:05 PM
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Horses are still an expensive hobby.
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Old 10-04-2017, 04:25 PM
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Autonomous (aka self-driving) cars will likely have a bigger impact on the collector car market/hobby than shift from ICE to electric power. For most people a car is a transportation appliance not something to experience, cherish, or collect. This will become more true as most people don't engage in the physical act of driving, or as individual car ownership declines in favor of on-demand hailing of an autonomous vehicle fleet.

That said there will always be people who enjoy cars just as S1000RR said people still enjoy horses. It's been nearly a century since horses were a common form of transportation but there are still plenty of people who show them, race them, ride them on trails or off main roads, etc. I suspect car hobby will be somewhat analogous in 30-50 years.

Today people of all ages, but particularly "millennials", place increasing value on unique experiences. For some owning, driving, showing, racing a vintage car is one of those experiences. I have a 20-something colleague at work, she and her husband don't own a modern car as they live in the city and commute exclusively via subway / Uber / Lyft. But they do own a vintage VW bus that they drive on weekends, show casually at local shows, and take on camping road trips.

So electrification, autonomy, and generational shifts will change the hobby undoubtedly but none will kill it.
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Old 10-05-2017, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by turbo ride View Post
......as companies like GM announce a move to 100% electric vehicles?
There goes GM cutting it's own throat yet again and all so they can be valued like Tesla (interesting that Tesla is the highest valued manufacturer when they haven't made a dime).
Electric cars are not money makers for any company who manufactures them. Furthermore, the power grid in the U.S. is not ready for even 50% of all cars to be electric.
When someone figures out how to drive your electric car coast-to-coast then everyone will have them. Until then, sales of EV's will pretty much remain where they are and we can all relax
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Old 10-05-2017, 05:21 AM
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Timely article just popped into my inbox:

FCA Loses $20,000 for Each Fiat 500e Sold, GM Drops $9,000 for Every Bolt | Automobile Magazine

Manufacturers are losing money now on EVs, but it's all about economies of scale.

As someone who has a leased i3 for a DD and also owns two old Porsches and a couple of old bikes, I, for one, welcome our new electric overlords.
Old 10-05-2017, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s5uewf View Post
I think the resale market may drop off as younger males will not want older gas engine vehicles and as older males die off. Not sure when. I also think insurance industry will try to price self driving cars off the road and will get politicians to help them.

Once those who choose not to drive and/or do not really like gas vehicles get old enough to carry a vote in Congress and have enough cash to influence markets, I expect we will start to see more "safe" and more "eco friendly" transportation become more prevalent.

On the other hand, there are already kits available to convert my 930 to electric drive, so if I have to, I can keep the car and slide in batteries and a motor and still shift, even. I hope I never have to do this however.
This, great points here....

my feeling is millennials did not grow up in a car culture like many did in the 60s and 70s learning to wrench on their own cars. Yes they place value on experiences, but they are also inherently cheap. Spending time in a garage working on an old car doesn't seem like the experiences they are looking for and paying a mechanic to maintain a hobby car that may rarely see use like their daily driver seems unlikely knowing their current predispositions

how many people do you know that can drive a car from the early part of the century, crank starting, adjusting timing while driving etc. if my life depended on getting in a model A and driving away, id be dead. i think the same may ring true in the future.

the collector car hobby only recently took a shot in the arm starting with speed channel airing Barrett Jackson Auctions. who knows how long it lasts or how it evolves. we can only speculate.
Old 10-05-2017, 07:57 AM
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When the price of gas drops due to mass electric car use ever dwindling classics will maintain or go up a bit in value. It’s not likely that bearded hipsters are going to suddenly die off...
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Stefn1 View Post
my feeling is millennials did not grow up in a car culture like many did in the 60s and 70s learning to wrench on their own cars. Yes they place value on experiences, but they are also inherently cheap. Spending time in a garage working on an old car doesn't seem like the experiences they are looking for and paying a mechanic to maintain a hobby car that may rarely see use like their daily driver seems unlikely knowing their current predispositions
how many people do you know that can drive a car from the early part of the century, crank starting, adjusting timing while driving etc. if my life depended on getting in a model A and driving away, id be dead. i think the same may ring true in the future.
The whole issue of millennials being gearheads largely revolves around education and income level, from what little I've seen.

Every time I take my car to the local cars & coffee, I see a lot of millennials and hipsters roaming around. They love cars; they just can't afford what they love yet. Many of them drive Audis and BMWs. They tell me a 911 is what they aspire to.

My son is an electrical engineer and all his friends are mechanical engineers. All of them are big-time gearheads. All are into German cars in a major way. My son built computers in middle school. I thought he wouldn't be into cars based on that. All that changed when he got into college and bought a car. Now he owns two cars (and he's still in grad school) and angling to acquire a 911 E when he graduates

The tuner scene here in Detroit consists mostly of millennials.

I say, don't believe what the media is trying to sell about the demise of the car hobby.
While the type of cars that are prized have changed (that happens naturally as the old guys die off) the culture is still thriving from what I've seen.
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Old 10-06-2017, 06:16 AM
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totally electric cars are for short trips in an inner city, they should be micro cars to aid in parking.

That being said battery technology is very Dirty.

Tesla uses Laptop batteries and are essentially an electric car with an Ipad for a dash- losing money replacing and disposing batteries - hardly cutting edge technology.

Now imagine you live in Houston or Miami with everyone electric and .....a hurricane comes
Great you make it 200 mi and need a recharge.

Tesla is a con there is NO KERS, No heat energy recovery. no small motor to charge or bail you out.

look at the new F-1 cars ...they are THE most efficient in history , Turbo , KERS , Heat recovery.

A friend has a Tesla X ...what a POS. CV joints went out at 5K mi.. The car is not even in Beta state. The car is so hackable so insecure it's dangerous. He cannot drive from Austin to Dallas because everyone on I-35 goes 80 MPH or risk being rear ended. The Tesla X has a range of less than 100 mi @ 80 mph ....
His normally 3 hour trip to Dallas needs an additional 2 hours for a re-charge

the rush to all electric may be another way for the man to have more control over you ....
once power is out you can only make it 200 mi....but with a gas tank and gas cans .....
Old 10-06-2017, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Hat View Post
totally electric cars are for short trips in an inner city, they should be micro cars to aid in parking.

That being said battery technology is very Dirty.

Tesla uses Laptop batteries and are essentially an electric car with an Ipad for a dash- losing money replacing and disposing batteries - hardly cutting edge technology.

Now imagine you live in Houston or Miami with everyone electric and .....a hurricane comes
Great you make it 200 mi and need a recharge.

Tesla is a con there is NO KERS, No heat energy recovery. no small motor to charge or bail you out.

look at the new F-1 cars ...they are THE most efficient in history , Turbo , KERS , Heat recovery.

A friend has a Tesla X ...what a POS. CV joints went out at 5K mi.. The car is not even in Beta state. The car is so hackable so insecure it's dangerous. He cannot drive from Austin to Dallas because everyone on I-35 goes 80 MPH or risk being rear ended. The Tesla X has a range of less than 100 mi @ 80 mph ....
His normally 3 hour trip to Dallas needs an additional 2 hours for a re-charge

the rush to all electric may be another way for the man to have more control over you ....
once power is out you can only make it 200 mi....but with a gas tank and gas cans .....
Great post. I think you are on to it!!
Old 10-06-2017, 07:24 AM
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horses are still an expensive hobby.
boom :d
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Hat View Post
Tesla uses Laptop batteries and are essentially an electric car with an Ipad for a dash- losing money replacing and disposing batteries - hardly cutting edge technology.
A friend has a Tesla X ...what a POS. CV joints went out at 5K mi.. The car is not even in Beta state. The car is so hackable so insecure it's dangerous. He cannot drive from Austin to Dallas because everyone on I-35 goes 80 MPH or risk being rear ended. The Tesla X has a range of less than 100 mi @ 80 mph ....
It's an open secret in Detroit that Tesla's quality is $hit, made all the more frustrating by the fact that the "experts" on Wall Street think they are the most valuable auto company on earth.
I read the other day that none other than 'ol Vlad Putin said electric cars are dirty. Of course, he owns several oil companies
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Old 10-06-2017, 08:55 AM
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Note the inferred message in the video below. It is a gas powered car, but the message is that computer logic can operate a car more safely than a human can, so cars may not even need driver seats in the future...

http://pmd.cdn.turner.com/money/big/news/2017/10/11/caption/cadillac-super-cruise-washington-dc.cnnmoney_1668730_1024x576.mp4
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Old 10-17-2017, 03:18 AM
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The latest cars don't need humans now.
Many are fully autonomous and simply not activated. They are gathering information from all the cars out there to fine tune the system. Once the general public becomes accepting of the takeover the switch will be flipped and the cars fully self driving. So like everything else forced on the general public you will be bombarded with propaganda until you give in. I see the misuse of cell phones and the horrific harm caused by stupid people as being the tool used to push the idea of giving up your keys. Now for old folks and city slickers a self driving car is a god send. For a responsible auto enthusiast it may be the beginning of the end. Equestrians have to enjoy their hobby riding areas developed for them, you want to do that with your 930?
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Old 10-17-2017, 03:39 AM
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