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damn Brad, that's slick as usual - really likin that

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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '08 M3 6gang vert |
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| '07 S6 | '98 M3 vert | '01 M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 S8 | '95 S6 6gang | '88 M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 01-14-2018, 03:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 908/930 View Post
Nice cooling system Brad,

Have you considered using some type of oil based heat transfer fluid, I am assuming that you are using water based coolant, just thinking that it would react less, will loose some efficiency, but could take much higher temp's without trying to boil over.
The thought had crossed my mind, but I did not know if the Bosch water recirc pump that I am using, would work with the heavier oil. Plus, using some low pressure fittings, if I did end up getting a leak, I did not want it near the exhaust W/G's , etc.
But, I think that the oil would work a lot better for heat transfer and not boiling over.

Also, Spenny I did not think about the water cooling circuit in the W/G's. I never had a problem with them overheating.... Hmm, now you have me thinking
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-3584RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 01-16-2018, 05:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
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^^^ I looked into cooling the WG's too after seeing that. Tial's website does not recommend the water cooling unless it's an actual race car. I'm sure there is plenty of air flow around them on our cars.

I was at the Kart track this weekend and will be using a shifter kart radiator (better mounting attachments built in and a smaller sealed cap) and Ford GT500 intercooler water pump (It's designed for continuous operation). And I like the mount better than the Bosch.

Great write up and thanks for the idea. A little extra cooling can't hurt.
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Old 01-16-2018, 06:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1979-930 View Post
^^^ I looked into cooling the WG's too after seeing that. Tial's website does not recommend the water cooling unless it's an actual race car. I'm sure there is plenty of air flow around them on our cars.

I was at the Kart track this weekend and will be using a shifter kart radiator (better mounting attachments built in and a smaller sealed cap) and Ford GT500 intercooler water pump (It's designed for continuous operation). And I like the mount better than the Bosch.

Great write up and thanks for the idea. A little extra cooling can't hurt.
Oooh, like the idea of a kart radiator...I'm going to retrieve mine from my "auxiliary garage" over the other side of town, a little later....it's a single seater (Gould) radiator used on hillclimb/sprint cars, so about as light as you get for cooling an entire powertrain, but can't help feeling it's too big for just the turbo, which then means I have to run lines down to the front diff recess area. Would be a lot nicer if I could keep it local to the engine.

Re cooling the wastegates, interesting, I'd not read that they recommended not to cool them (not contesting that, it's just a long while since I looked). I did read some years ago that if they were in a confined space like a Supra/Evo/GTR engine bay, then they ought to be plumbed into the circuit....but...I'm all for keeping it easier. They could always be incorporated at a later date.

I re-posted a video from the Tialsport instagram feed the other day, showing a vid clip of 500,000 cycles @ 2000ļF on their WG....glowing a nice cherry red as you'd expect.....but they reckon they're still good-to-go for another run, despite that abuse.

Tonights job is to design an expansion tank; I like the idea of having something that's easy to fill up, looks in-keeping with the RHS of the engine bay with the various filler caps and avoids me having to do the Brad-Grovel in the wheelarch to top the system up. I'm going to mount this where I once mounted ignition amplifiers (which prior to that had some of the CIS fuel supply gubbins). Then it'll feed down through the tinware to the bottom hose of the radiator either before or after the electric pump....back later with some pics or mockups, if anyone's interested? (and nobody minds the slight hijack?)
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1993 (MY92) 964 Turbo 3.3 - Horizon Blue - Follow my 964 Turbo project here... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/626572-964-3-3-turbo-efi-conversion-using-syvecs-life-racing-engine-management.html
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Old 01-16-2018, 09:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1979-930 View Post
.... and Ford GT500 intercooler water pump (It's designed for continuous operation). And I like the mount better than the Bosch.
How about this one? Mini Cooper turbocharger coolant pump...$33!! And a pretty handy looking plethora of mounting options.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-mini-parts/additional-water-pump/11537630368/
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1993 (MY92) 964 Turbo 3.3 - Horizon Blue - Follow my 964 Turbo project here... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/626572-964-3-3-turbo-efi-conversion-using-syvecs-life-racing-engine-management.html
On Instagram (along with other stuff) as @spenny_.b #spennybengineproject
Old 01-16-2018, 03:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
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I like the price!


Sent from my iPhone while Driving
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Old 01-16-2018, 05:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1979-930 View Post
I like the price!


Sent from my iPhone while Driving
Yeah...but I'm confused how a car that's built in the UK, extremely popular in the UK and has parts suppliers that are likely based in the UK, has (genuine) parts prices higher than the US!! This same pump is equivalent to $62 locally!! Anyway, still not big-bucks, just irritating. But then, I'm easily irritated.


ETA: When phoning around the local car parts stores, I was told it's a BMW Mini Dealer part only....cue the groan....BUT..phoned my BMW dealer, £33/$45 incl tax, will be here tomorrow morning!
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1993 (MY92) 964 Turbo 3.3 - Horizon Blue - Follow my 964 Turbo project here... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/626572-964-3-3-turbo-efi-conversion-using-syvecs-life-racing-engine-management.html
On Instagram (along with other stuff) as @spenny_.b #spennybengineproject

Last edited by Spenny_b; 01-17-2018 at 03:22 AM..
Old 01-17-2018, 02:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
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This may also work well as a header tank...another Mini item! Not sure on dimensions; my neighbour has a Mini, I'll see if I can lift her bonnet when it's back from repair to measure.

Mini water expansion tank on eBay
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1993 (MY92) 964 Turbo 3.3 - Horizon Blue - Follow my 964 Turbo project here... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/626572-964-3-3-turbo-efi-conversion-using-syvecs-life-racing-engine-management.html
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Old 01-17-2018, 02:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
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Just spoken to my man Matt at Think Automotive here in the UK (my go-to place for all car/race plumbing systems - have been absolutely superb with their flexibility and ideas for my project)

We had an interesting discussion;

1) An oil cooler unit should be more than capable of dealing with this requirement; yes, the laminar flow of oil v water is different, but not to the extent where this will cause a problem. This opens up the options with regards to package size and mounting. I'll sell on my super-duper water rad from the single seater.

2) M14 fittings on the CHRA do give me more options that simply the -4AN I was originally going to use, including push-on fittings with hose that's capable of handling these temps. Banjo fittings for my installation would be extremely useful, as the backside mounting would then neatly clear the T4 flange and run back up alongside the wastegate hoses.

3) Using M14 push on fittings allows up to a -6AN hose, as we have a decent gap between turbine and compressor housings

4) A couple of options with a header tank; can either run it as a drop-in feed to the bottom hose, or could be run inline in the circuit. Needs some more thought.

5) A lot of the hoses will be determined by the inlet/outlet pipe sizes on the Mini pump; as soon I have that in my grubby mits, I can then plan a journey up to Think Auto and buy a kit of bits to play with.

6) While I'm over at BMW tomorrow, I'll get one of the lads to pop the bonnet on a Mini so I can measure the expansion tank size - will report back when I know more.
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1993 (MY92) 964 Turbo 3.3 - Horizon Blue - Follow my 964 Turbo project here... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/626572-964-3-3-turbo-efi-conversion-using-syvecs-life-racing-engine-management.html
On Instagram (along with other stuff) as @spenny_.b #spennybengineproject
Old 01-17-2018, 03:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenny_b View Post
How about this one? Mini Cooper turbocharger coolant pump...$33!! And a pretty handy looking plethora of mounting options.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-mini-parts/additional-water-pump/11537630368/
Before anyone gets too excited and orders this pump....

I'm just checking whether it's like the BMW E90 (on onwards, I guess) pumps that are CAN Bus controlled, or whether it's PWM.

The connection is a 3-pin plug, with a +12v & 2x ECU connections. Normally you'd think that CAN requires 2x signal buses, to obviously flip between logic level and GND, simultaneously, to generate a toggle function. Bearing in mind that one of the connections needs to be a GND, that only leaves one pin for (presumably) speed control.

Will report back once I've got my mate to clarify. In the meantime I've cancelled my order with BMW.
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1993 (MY92) 964 Turbo 3.3 - Horizon Blue - Follow my 964 Turbo project here... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/626572-964-3-3-turbo-efi-conversion-using-syvecs-life-racing-engine-management.html
On Instagram (along with other stuff) as @spenny_.b #spennybengineproject
Old 01-17-2018, 07:05 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #30 (permalink)
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My watercooling setup for the turbo in our air cooled cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobrat930 View Post
Ok, When I put my new turbo in my car ( TiAL's version of Garrett's GT35r), the general consensus was that you could run a turbo that had water cooling ports on an air cooled car WITHOUT running anything to the watercooling ports. I had three choices...



1. Just leave the water cooling ports open, with nothing attached.

2. Hook up engine oil to the water ports, and utilize the engine oil for additional cooling of the CHRA

3. or fabricate a self contained water cooling system to cool the CHRA.



I decided on option #1, as it was the easiest, and since I was just getting my whole EFI project up and running, it was just another thing to have to deal with. That proved (in my case) to be the wrong choice. The ceramic ball bearings on the turbine side of my CHRA bit the dust, and my turbo locked up. If I was under full boost when this occurred, I might have had all the pieces of the compressor wheel enter my intake. I boroscoped as much as I could the engine (I took it out of the car), and I also completely flushed the oil system in the car. I cut open both of my oil filters, and the only debris I found was in the gears of the scavenge pump. The debris that I found was just a very tiny amount of the ceramic material from the failed bearing. I have a couple thousand miles on the car since then, and all is good.



Anyways, Here are a few pictures to show what I sourced, and what I fabricated up to make my own water cooling system for my new turbo (Garrett's newest and greatest GTX3584RS). The radiator was sourced from amazon from a company in FL I believe, and was an aftermarket version for a Kawasaki KX85 two stroke motorcross bike. It has its own radiator cap. The pump is a Bosch unit and is from a VW, and is the afterrun pump for their turbocharged vehicles. Total cost, IIRC, was right around $200 to $300



Its CRAZY just how much heat this setup pulls off the CHRA after shutdown!! I have it set to run for around 10 minutes or so, after shutdown. When it first is turned on, it is a good 180 to 220 deg air coming out. After 7 to 10 minutes, it is right about ambient. Hope this helps anyone else that wants to do something like this.


Brad,



Any chance you have the part #'s for the fittings. I can't seem to find the 14x1.5M to 10 AN. You ran #10 AN 90* to 10 pushlock hose, correct? I'm going to assume the 90* 10AN fitings cleared the housing and bolts.

If this is not what you ran, what is it?

Edit.
I found the part number for the 14m to 10AN adapter. I would just like to verify you ran 10an hose.
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Last edited by 1979-930; 03-15-2018 at 07:38 PM..
Old 03-15-2018, 02:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #31 (permalink)
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Brad - have you tried glycol, or a high %age of glycol in your water. Will raise the Boiling Pt a lot.
Good write up.
Alan
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Old 03-15-2018, 03:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #32 (permalink)
 
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Alan, Iím going to run the Evans waterless coolant. It should eliminate the need for a surge tank.


Sent from my iPhone while Driving
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Old 03-15-2018, 07:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #33 (permalink)
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Derrick,

Are you using the same motorcycle radiator as Brad did? Are going to locate it in the same place? I am not sure what the radiator is mounted to from the pictures. I am currently converting my GT3582r to a GTX3576r for quicker spool up with my 3.0 liter. When I install it I want to set up a cooling system as Brad has done.
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Old 03-16-2018, 07:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #34 (permalink)
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My watercooling setup for the turbo in our air cooled cars

I picked up a different radiator. It’s a for a KTM Freeride 250. It’s shorter and wider with better mounting positions. I’ll provide more info and details when I install it. Should be in two or three weeks. It will go in the left rear wheel well area.



Sent from my iPhone while Driving
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Last edited by 1979-930; 03-20-2018 at 09:29 AM..
Old 03-19-2018, 04:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1979-930 View Post
. . . Itís shorter and wider with better mounting positions.
. . .
???

!!!

Old 03-19-2018, 05:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #36 (permalink)
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^^^ Yea? Your point?
Those specs are perfect for countless things.

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Old 03-19-2018, 07:33 PM
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