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E-85 sippin drunk
 
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My watercooling setup for the turbo in our air cooled cars

Ok, When I put my new turbo in my car ( TiAL's version of Garrett's GT35r), the general consensus was that you could run a turbo that had water cooling ports on an air cooled car WITHOUT running anything to the watercooling ports. I had three choices...

1. Just leave the water cooling ports open, with nothing attached.
2. Hook up engine oil to the water ports, and utilize the engine oil for additional cooling of the CHRA
3. or fabricate a self contained water cooling system to cool the CHRA.

I decided on option #1, as it was the easiest, and since I was just getting my whole EFI project up and running, it was just another thing to have to deal with. That proved (in my case) to be the wrong choice. The ceramic ball bearings on the turbine side of my CHRA bit the dust, and my turbo locked up. If I was under full boost when this occurred, I might have had all the pieces of the compressor wheel enter my intake. I boroscoped as much as I could the engine (I took it out of the car), and I also completely flushed the oil system in the car. I cut open both of my oil filters, and the only debris I found was in the gears of the scavenge pump. The debris that I found was just a very tiny amount of the ceramic material from the failed bearing. I have a couple thousand miles on the car since then, and all is good.

Anyways, Here are a few pictures to show what I sourced, and what I fabricated up to make my own water cooling system for my new turbo (Garrett's newest and greatest GTX3584RS). The radiator was sourced from amazon from a company in FL I believe, and was an aftermarket version for a Kawasaki KX85 two stroke motorcross bike. It has its own radiator cap. The pump is a Bosch unit and is from a VW, and is the afterrun pump for their turbocharged vehicles. Total cost, IIRC, was right around $200 to $300

Its CRAZY just how much heat this setup pulls off the CHRA after shutdown!! I have it set to run for around 10 minutes or so, after shutdown. When it first is turned on, it is a good 180 to 220 deg air coming out. After 7 to 10 minutes, it is right about ambient. Hope this helps anyone else that wants to do something like this.


[IMG]turbocoolerparts by Brad, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]turbocoolerfanspecs by Brad, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]turbocoolershroud by Brad, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]turbocoolerwheelwell by Brad, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]turbocoolerrearview by Brad, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 01-12-2018, 06:41 AM
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Wow nice setup. This is on my radar for sure.
Care to share the rest of the part numbers for us lemmings?
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:44 AM
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Great, Brad!

FWIW, if a compressor wheel were to let go, the intercooler doubles as an excellent filter, stopping bits from entering the intake manifold.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:58 AM
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ok please forgive my ignorance what does CHRA mean I know it's the bearing package but not the meaning of the acronym.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:31 AM
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CHRA = Center Housing Rotating Assembly
"The CHRA includes a complete turbocharger minus the compressor housing, turbine housing, and wastegate actuator."
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:09 AM
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Brad,
This is awesome, thanks for sending! Like some others have asked do you have specific PN's for the radiator and pump?

Also does this run only after ingition shut down or in addition to running continuously during driving? What timer/controller do you use for after ignition shut down or is this coming from your ECU (mine won't do this)

Finally I've been in an around most cranny's of my my '86 several times but I can't tell from your pictures where you put the radiator/fan assembly?

Great post, please put a little more out there for the rest of us dummies!
Thanks, Andy
Old 01-12-2018, 10:17 AM
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Liking that a lot Brad, thanks for taking the time to document it. It overcomes a lot of the over-thinking I got bored with thinking about, with that integrated header tank into the radiator.

Do you only activate this after engine shutdown, or is it pumping water while driving? How are you controlling it? Directly from the engine managment or using an external, stand-alone-turbo-timer-type-thing?


Lol - Andy and I must've been reading/typing at the same time...it's not an echo...
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:18 AM
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I don't think this link to my build thread will be *that* useful, as it doesn't show a Bosch part number...but...it may help with eyeballing the unit, assuming it's the same one Brad has used.

I no longer have this pump, so can't nip out and have a look, but with a quick text message next week, I can find out.

(also shown in the radiator I was planning on using - an ex-single seater unit that needed a new home - but probably too OTT, and was certainly a little larger than the one above.

The Bosch water pump (and radiator) I was planning on using...
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:39 AM
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Sweet little setup, Brad!



Thinking aloud, I wonder if simply running a metal or copper tube around the perimeter of the engine compartment with this pump would do the trick too?

The perimeter is probably around a dozen feet or so (vaguely remember adding 6 ft of wire to my WBO2 sensor wire, and how fast it ate it up)? I'd think it'd drop some heat off, hence metal or copper as the material and the distance traveled. Still would need a small reservoir to keep head pressure on the pump I'd imagine?
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:00 AM
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Wow, thank for all the kudos, guys I will get and post the part numbers once I get to the house after work.
The only thing I would change if I did this again, is to incorporate a reservoir and hook it into overflow/ vent fitting. I have had to top off the radiator twice already due to the loss from it venting the pressure off (it has a 16psi cap). Other than that, I think it does the job quite well.

Andy, Spenny, I have it temp wired to the relay (and red guarded switch) for my transaxle oil cooler pump. I just wanted to make sure it worked, and I did not have to make any modifications or scrap it and go a different route.

Now that I am happy with the setup, I will incorporate a temp sender the the setup and have my ECU control hysteresis.

And Chris, I will definitely complete the wiring to your standards (and mine).... I know you were eyeing it LOL
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 01-12-2018, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy@Altitude View Post
Brad,
This is awesome, thanks for sending! Like some others have asked do you have specific PN's for the radiator and pump?

Also does this run only after ingition shut down or in addition to running continuously during driving? What timer/controller do you use for after ignition shut down or is this coming from your ECU (mine won't do this)

Finally I've been in an around most cranny's of my my '86 several times but I can't tell from your pictures where you put the radiator/fan assembly?

Great post, please put a little more out there for the rest of us dummies!
Thanks, Andy
Thanks Andy. The radiator is behind the driver's rear wheel and tire. Its hard to see in the picture, but it is stuffed above where the support rod for the rear bumper is. I made a box out of cardboard and played with the dimensions a bit to see what the maximum sized radiator I could fit back there. If you were to take the rear bumper off, just behind the left rear light you would see half of it, and the other half would be up in the rear fender.
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 01-12-2018, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
Great, Brad!

FWIW, if a compressor wheel were to let go, the intercooler doubles as an excellent filter, stopping bits from entering the intake manifold.
Thanks Chris!! And you know my luck (or lack thereof). If I was in boost, not only would have gotten ALL of my compressor wheel in the intake track, but I bet it would of sucked up all of Rosie O'Donnel as well!!!!!
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 01-12-2018, 12:05 PM
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Very well done. I did a water cooled system for my turbo as well and similarly been surprised by how much heat it gives off. And it works on my 100% track rat the turbo has so far outlived one engine rebuild, then finished the 2017 season the fresh engine and all is well. So all up 6 track seasons on one turbo. I still carry a spare.
Dave
Old 01-12-2018, 12:34 PM
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Nice cooling system Brad,

Have you considered using some type of oil based heat transfer fluid, I am assuming that you are using water based coolant, just thinking that it would react less, will loose some efficiency, but could take much higher temp's without trying to boil over.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:26 PM
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Here is the link for the radiator...

https://www.amazon.com/Outlaw-Racing-Oversized-1998-2013-2001-2013/dp/B0157939YW/ref=redir_mobile_desktop/136-6875700-6438553?_encoding=UTF8&dpID=51CyS6HorNL&dpPl=1&keywords=or3358&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&qid=1515798674&ref=plSrch&ref_=mp_s_a_1_1&sr=8-1


And here is a picture of the box and part number for the pump...

[IMG]20180112_182615 by Brad, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 01-12-2018, 04:15 PM
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Brad, something I meant to ask you previously - are you also cooling the wastegate(s) in the water circuit?

When I was going to put water into my project, I had it all hosed-up with -4 to include both in the cooling loop, which I will probably look to do again when I revisit the sub-project.
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Old 01-14-2018, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenny_b View Post
.........
When I was going to put water into my project, I had it all hosed-up with -4 to include both in the cooling loop, which I will probably look to do again when I revisit the sub-project.
How would this look? I don't recall any type of hose connections on wastegates. Would the WG be immersed in a fluid-filled container, which was circulated through a fan-radiator system (or a copper-tubing coil, a la Tippy's suggestion)?
Thanks.
Old 01-14-2018, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo View Post
How would this look? I don't recall any type of hose connections on wastegates. Would the WG be immersed in a fluid-filled container, which was circulated through a fan-radiator system (or a copper-tubing coil, a la Tippy's suggestion)?
Thanks.
Hello mate,

It's the same unit, except that at the moment I (and others) will blank-off the water ports around the periphery of the housing. Funnily enough, I've just posted something on my Instagram feed showing my W/G's (one of my non-car-but-techie pals was asking about them).



The stainless blanking plugs you see alternate between water ports and control ports, you use the ones that are most conveniently positioned for your installation, and blank-off the rest.

Internally to the housing are channels that flow the water through; you simply feed into one side and out the other using the supplied M-M adapter and -4AN couplings.
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1993 (MY92) 964 Turbo 3.3 - Horizon Blue - Follow my 964 Turbo project here... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/626572-964-3-3-turbo-efi-conversion-using-syvecs-life-racing-engine-management.html
On Instagram (along with other stuff) as @spenny_.b #spennybengineproject

Last edited by Spenny_b; 01-15-2018 at 02:38 AM..
Old 01-14-2018, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenny_b View Post
....
It's the same unit, except that at the moment I (and others) will blank-off the water ports around the periphery of the housing. Funnily enough, I've just posted something on my Instagram feed showing my W/G's (one of my non-car-but-techie pals was asking what about them).

The stainless blanking plugs you see alternate between water ports and control ports, you use the ones that are most conveniently positioned for your installation, and blank-off the rest.

Internally to the housing are channels that flow the water through; you simply feed into one side and out the other using the supplied M-M adapter and -4AN couplings.
Ah, not the stock Porsche WG then, right?
Thanks
Old 01-14-2018, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
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Ah, not the stock Porsche WG then, right?
Thanks
Stock?!?!...sorry, I don't know the meaning of the (swear)word, lol!
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:32 AM
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