Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,988
Permanent WUR pressure gauge mounting

Searched threads, but not coming up. I have seen the odd pic before of a permanent fuel pressure gauge mounted in the WUR line.
This will make my track tuning muuuch easier. Anyone got any pics as to how they did it?
I think Jim (Fairman)had one on his?
Thanks
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 01-27-2018, 08:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
umop apisdn
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 467
be aware mechanical gauges have a nasty habit of rupturing so use an electronic sensor and gauge if permanent installation is your goal

The 928 ran a banjo fitting on the WUR outlet, a suitable fitting for the inlet would be the same as on the fuel head to injector feed from memory


when I was logging pressures during development I ran a HEL Performance 10mm to 1/8npt double banjo sensor take off


I'm pretty sure I have a spare one in my collection, let me know if you can use it and I'll go hunting

although this might be better
__________________
Steve
1981 928S 4.7 ROW with KE3-Jetronic and Franken8 (AEM Inifinty) follow at [http://www.frankencis.com/Activity-Feed/userid/2]
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS

www.FrankenCIS.com

Last edited by Reanimotion; 01-30-2018 at 05:18 PM.. Reason: corrected banjo fitting description
Old 01-27-2018, 10:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,988
Hi Steve, That is the sort of info I am after, but not sure it will get me there. I have two options as I see it. T into the FD/WUR line at the WUR - where I hook my test gauge into now. Or I have a break in the line just after the FD outlet - where another dump/enrichment thing used to be. Put a T piece in there? The fitting on my WUR is like in the foreground of your pic. Your banjo seems to be on the return side of the WUR?
Regards
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 01-27-2018, 11:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,988
Does that banjo side of the WUR give me WUR pressure? I have always used the ferrule fitting in the front. If that rear banjo fitting works I could piggy back another banjo fitting and make a double banjo bolt (I have a lathe).
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 01-28-2018, 12:06 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,337
Garage
I've posted this a few times, here is what I use for testing and to monitor my engine. I have pictures on another computer of how it was plumbed into the WUR.


__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8

Last edited by RarlyL8; 01-28-2018 at 04:35 AM..
Old 01-28-2018, 04:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Old car guy.....
 
Hot Euro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 496
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
Searched threads, but not coming up. I have seen the odd pic before of a permanent fuel pressure gauge mounted in the WUR line.
This will make my track tuning muuuch easier. Anyone got any pics as to how they did it?
I think Jim (Fairman)had one on his?
Thanks
Alan
Here is what I did when I was worried about wearing out the fittings everytime I had to make an adjustment. Len (Boxter gt) made the fitting for me. Some said this may not hold up but it is good so far. I don't race it. I love being able to see control pressure all the time, and without the mailbox air cleaner adjustments are a breeze.


New K&N this year


__________________
Steve
930/51 Turbo B&S to 3.2l, P&P Twin Plug heads, Twinfire Ign, Ruf IC, K27 7006, Powerhaus, Zork, 009 inj, 044 pump, BLwur, Mocal, LM2, 81 Steel SC WB, 930 4 sp LSD, Brembo, Retroair, Euromeisters
2003 BMW Z4 Daily Driver & Autocross car.
Old 01-28-2018, 05:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Now Available for Ordering:   101 Projects For Your BMW 3 Series 1982-2000  [more info]
Turbo Powered Snow Blower
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA
Posts: 1,789
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
Does that banjo side of the WUR give me WUR pressure? I have always used the ferrule fitting in the front. If that rear banjo fitting works I could piggy back another banjo fitting and make a double banjo bolt (I have a lathe).
Alan


You can buy banjo fittings and double banjo bolts at Belmetric.com



Sent from my iPhone while Driving
__________________
Derrick
Old 01-28-2018, 07:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,988
Thanks guys, managed to pull a few more pics up. Would like to see what J fairman did - he referes to a brass T piece. It is partly a matter of what I can hopefully source locally.
Have just pulled the fitting out of the WUR - the one the hard line to the FD hooks in to.
I have something that looks like a restrictor (factory fitted by the looks, in the base of this union fitting. I cannot see thru the fitting. Any clues as to what is going on here? Wondering what issues I may have if I replace this.
Regards
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 01-28-2018, 11:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Turbo Powered Snow Blower
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA
Posts: 1,789
Garage
I was wondering if the cold start sees head pressure all the time. I thought about a double banjo there.


Sent from my iPhone while Driving
__________________
Derrick
Old 01-28-2018, 01:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,988
The pressure drops off to zero after a few hrs. Your accumulator holds 20 psi for an hr or two. The cold start is helped with the CSV, and once the engine starts cranking and sucking a bit of air (air plate sw) the pumps bring the pressure up.
I am on to it, I think.
I think I have found the same brass fitting Jim used. Just trying to figure the logistics of the permutations and combinations of which bit goes best where - gauge fitting and fitting for WUR line.
Will post a pic when done (don't have camera right now). Also will explain the latest WUR adjustment mod as of Y/day. Pleased with the result. I can do WP and dump pressure in situ without moving WUR. Once I get this gauge permanently fixed, it will be a breeze to make these adjustments - 2-3 mins work, 2 allen keys.
Regards
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 01-28-2018, 05:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,337
Garage
Here is the setup I use on the WUR end. Been using variations of this for over 20 years with no issues of any kind.



__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 01-28-2018, 08:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,988
Thanks Brian. That last pic is pretty much where I am heading. Just waiting on a gauge - had to order one , nothing local. Looks like I am using the same brass Tee.
One concern I have is I wanted to use the original WUR coupling fitting to the FD line. Because it seems to have some sort of factory restrictor in it. Unfortunately I am very limited in what fittings I can get/use to re plumb the line back to the FD. I had to use some larger tubing than desired - wanted to use flex tubing - but no fittings available to go with it. The short story is I had to abandon the Bosch WUR fitting. It looks like you are not using it either? I am guessing the restrictor is in there to prevent any violent diaphragm movement? Am I right you are running your WUR/FD line without any Bosch restrictor in it? ie an open line WUR/FD
Thanks
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 01-28-2018, 09:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,337
Garage
I'm not sure what you are calling a restrictor.
I've used both OEM and adapter fittings to attach gages depending on how it needed to be plumbed. In the middle picture there is a USA fitting going to the braided line with gages and the OEM fitting connecting the line to the FD. When I was done with all that I removed everything and screwed the OEM fitting back into the WUR.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 01-29-2018, 04:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,165
When I did this I only had it on the car for a few months if I remember correctly. I used a generic brass fitting with quarter inch male pipe threads on it. I ran a 10x1 tap over the pipe threads so it would thread into the WUR nicer.
It was a possible fire hazard if the brass T fitting I used ever broke from engine vibration and the weight of the sending unit hanging off it. That made me uncomfortable so I eventually removed it.

The sending unit I used was from a Harbor Freight 0-100 psi oil pressure gauge kit. That's probably the cheapest sending unit available that is made for oil based fluid and I didn't know how long it would work with gasoline but I figured it was worth a try and it worked fine. It never leaked while it was on the car.

I would not recommend it for long term use though because it's not made for this and it was a fire risk if it ever leaked and gas ran down on to the hot headers or something.

Here's a few pics of it.


Old 01-29-2018, 10:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,988
Thanks Jim. Excellent. Yes I can see you have the same issue with respect to the orientation of the T lugs - enough angle to point to the FD and enough to clear the WUR return banjo. A fine line I have been wrestling with using shims under the brass T. I have shied away from a sender unit like that - for the same reason - stuff hanging off the T. I am going for a center mounted pressure gauge on top of the brass fitting. I see you look like you were able to use your original WUR-FD fitting - you have a flex hose to the FD (at least partly). Makes things much easier. Mine is solid line all the way - so I have had to remake a new solid line and ditch that fitting. There seems to be some sort of restrictor in that WUR fitting so I am a bit nervous about dumping it.
But almost there. I have to make this fairly bullet proof for track use.
I did crack the FD/WUR line right at the point where it comes out of the FD once. Vibration on the track I think, coupled with the fact it used to have some pressure diaphragm enrichment thing hanging off that line. I did not know it had cracked until I got to the pits and could smell fuel. The engine bay was awash with fuel, and I had been blasting around the track with that line spraying fuel over the engine. It must have been a hair trigger away from igniting really. Very scary. I consider myself lucky to still have the engine.
Regards
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 01-29-2018, 11:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Old car guy.....
 
Hot Euro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 496
Garage
Found one more pic:

__________________
Steve
930/51 Turbo B&S to 3.2l, P&P Twin Plug heads, Twinfire Ign, Ruf IC, K27 7006, Powerhaus, Zork, 009 inj, 044 pump, BLwur, Mocal, LM2, 81 Steel SC WB, 930 4 sp LSD, Brembo, Retroair, Euromeisters
2003 BMW Z4 Daily Driver & Autocross car.
Old 01-29-2018, 03:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,165
That's a 007 fuel head and the car was an '87. Those skinny injector lines are sorta flexible and make injector flow tests into little plastic bottles easy.
The curved rubber vent hose on the control pressure regulator is a molded hose I found on an old 7 series BMW in a salvage yard a long time ago. I thought it looked like something i might find a use for someday and there it is.
The other end T's into the fuel tank vent hose and eventually connects to a 90 degree fitting in the top of the K&N air cleaner.
Old 01-29-2018, 04:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
kevinbodman930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 40
Steve,make sure you keep a good fire extinguisher with you.I worry enough running cis,I wouldn't want to worry about a gauge failing.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Old 01-29-2018, 06:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,988
Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
I'm not sure what you are calling a restrictor.
I've used both OEM and adapter fittings to attach gages depending on how it needed to be plumbed. In the middle picture there is a USA fitting going to the braided line with gages and the OEM fitting connecting the line to the FD. When I was done with all that I removed everything and screwed the OEM fitting back into the WUR.
Hi Brian, The fitting that screws into the WUR, and receives the FD line is the one I am talking about. I had everything set up y/day, with an alternative fitting because I could not find an end fitting to plumb into that OEM unit. The factory fitting has something pressed into the bottom of it - I cannot see clear thru. I take it to be some sort of restrictor rather than a screen type filter. So I was very wary of deleting it. I finally ripped out everything I did y/day and started again. I went to the local bosch injector/fuel service guy. He said those fittings on the end of the line into the WUR are unobtainium. After a long conversation he went out the back and came back with an end fitting chopped off some metal line. Approximate but not exact. Spent an hr or so on the lathe and modified it enough that hopefully it is a good fit in the WUR union. So I have just finished reinstalling the original bit and feel better about it. Will post pics when I get my camera back in a few days. Still waiting for the gauge.
Do these gauges have a habit of rupturing?? Hopefully I will have everything pretty well nailed down and minimum vibration etc. But I will be depending on the gauge integrity. But I would think it would b the same issue with a sender unit? And probably the same issue if a WUR disc ruptured?
Regards
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 01-29-2018, 06:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
kevinbodman930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 40
Hi Allen,for my tiny brain I just don't like the idea about a full-time fuel press gauge in the motor comp.Its just one more thing to worry about,knowing the heat that comes off our turbos.I scare easily.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Old 01-29-2018, 06:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:07 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2017 Pelican Parts LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.