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1986 930 Smoking, help

Hi,
I have a 1986 930 that has lots of blue smoke all the time.
After removing the IC there is residual oil lining the inside and in the supply tube.
First thing I did was to remove the turbo which looked like new and sent it to Tom Turbo in Florida for rebuild (great job, thanks!) oops, still smoking but runs great. I haven't found a PCV so maybe the oil separator? Any suggestions would be appreciated on where the source on the oil getting into the intake.
Old 01-28-2018, 11:38 AM
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Since you have never posted on this forum, I'm going to step out on a limb and suggest that you might be new to 930's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but here goes nothing....

Did you by chance just change the oil? I ask, because this act can catch a new 911/930 owner off guard.

Porsche 911's/930's are kinda unique in the car world, in that you must put the last couple quarts of oil in the car while the car is running and at full temperature. Only then can you use the fill marks on the oil tank dipstick to verify the correct oil level.

An overfilled 911/930 will be prone to smoking and potentially fouling plugs etc., etc.

Mark

Last edited by full quack; 01-29-2018 at 12:51 PM..
Old 01-29-2018, 12:47 PM
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that's a great place to start.

I would pull the muffler off and start it up and verify no oil coming out of the turbo.
yes I know it was rebuilt.
BTW, is it the stock turbo?

some others may know for sure but if the scavenge pump is not working will it cause this?
that would be my next check.
put a pot under the turbo after removing the bottom pipe so the oil from the turbo can drain into it.
then put the pickup in the same pot. (put some oil in it first). verify the pump drains the pot.
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 01-30-2018, 03:48 AM
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Thanks for the comments, yes I am new to the 930 and yes I did just change the oil.
It was showing low on the gauge so I added more sending the gauge to full. Oops, then doing some draining.
It was a balancing act to get the right amount to satisfy the oil level gauge and the dip stick levels but finally got it. I have wanted this car for years and have saved to make this a reality.
I so appreciate the wealth of information all the contributors have offered over the years, thank you.
Old 01-30-2018, 08:53 AM
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most don't like or use the gauge. personally I like it but then mine works and I have verified the dip stick to the gauge. check your oil at every stop light.

that's the thing. you need to fill according to the DIP STICK, engine HOT and RUNNING.
no need to fill to the max. plenty of oil. run it about mid way on the stick, fill at back up at the min.
once you know the level on the stick, verify to the gauge. then just use the gauge as a "need to add a qt"

I like my gauge at oil change time too. put in about 7-8 qts, run it, get it hot then add to get the gauge to move. drive it, check with gauge, add if needed.

the sending unit in the tank is the usual problem. I did a post on cleaning it up and making it work, I am sure there are others out there.
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 01-30-2018, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randoman1 View Post
Thanks for the comments, yes I am new to the 930 and yes I did just change the oil.
It was showing low on the gauge so I added more sending the gauge to full. Oops, then doing some draining.
It was a balancing act to get the right amount to satisfy the oil level gauge and the dip stick levels but finally got it. I have wanted this car for years and have saved to make this a reality.
I so appreciate the wealth of information all the contributors have offered over the years, thank you.
Not sure where you are located, but esp if you're in the US you probably have local resources to help as well.
Old 01-31-2018, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randoman1 View Post
Hi,
I have a 1986 930 that has lots of blue smoke all the time.
After removing the IC there is residual oil lining the inside and in the supply tube.
First thing I did was to remove the turbo which looked like new and sent it to Tom Turbo in Florida for rebuild (great job, thanks!) oops, still smoking but runs great. I haven't found a PCV so maybe the oil separator? Any suggestions would be appreciated on where the source on the oil getting into the intake.
Hi Randoman,
Welcome to the forum.
As all can attest to here I can say I have had a lot of ups and downs with getting my 930 back on the road. In regards to the smoking I can tell you it took 5 rebuilds by the same turbo rebuilder to get mine right.
Not jumping ahead your first point of call as suggested above is your oil level. Mine is comfortable around the 1/2 way mark on the dip stick. If you have had oil in the up pipe to the IC it would be a good idea to clean out the IC and pipe work, also check and clean/replace the air filter.
Hopefully the oil level when sorted will correct the smoking.
As mentioned the oil circuit may need to be verified and below I will add footage as to how thatís done and you will see what smoke issues I had.
Hope this helps.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YlcWojLbY7g
Old 02-01-2018, 02:47 PM
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SBK, any ideas why the previous turbo rebuilds failed?
Regards
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 02-01-2018, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
SBK, any ideas why the previous turbo rebuilds failed?
Regards
Alan
Hi Alan,
Honestly mate I have no idea.
Each time it came back I spoke to the rebuilder and was told the turbo was fine when run on the vsr.
However immediately pushed oil through both the compressor and turbine sides when installed.
I was just thankful they persisted and got it right, my thought is that the end gap of the seals/rings was not correct and maybe even the side gap. They were always a little vague and reluctant to say that they had got something wrong.
Old 02-01-2018, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBK930 View Post
Hi Alan,
Honestly mate I have no idea.
Each time it came back I spoke to the rebuilder and was told the turbo was fine when run on the vsr.
However immediately pushed oil through both the compressor and turbine sides when installed.
I was just thankful they persisted and got it right, my thought is that the end gap of the seals/rings was not correct and maybe even the side gap. They were always a little vague and reluctant to say that they had got something wrong.
My turbo pumped oil due to being imbalanced as a result of FOD (foreign object damage) to the turbine impeller. I sent it to Durabuilt for diagnosis and repair. They did a great job on it.
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Old 02-02-2018, 07:49 AM
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:03 AM
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Thank you to all the responses.
I sent the Turbo as a first step with the oil in IC and tubes. But after disassembly I found it to be in good shape then found the receipt from the previous owner with only 10K from new.
Got the oil level back in control and no more smoking but did fail smog. Pig rich and timing was about 36* with no more adjustment. Found the dizzy was one tooth advanced so got that going with 26* for a Cal. car. It has an appointment this Tuesday for a retune of the idle & mixture so hoping the smog gods smile down so I can get it registered. So far has been a good learning experience and I enjoy working on it.
Old 02-04-2018, 02:41 PM
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One other thing, oil leak.
There is an oil line running below the crank pulley from left to right. It makes a turn going forward on the right side then connects to a short rubber hose then turns into hardline moving forward and up. This one:
oil line number

The forward section has been replaced but still leaking. Clearly leaking from the threads/connection and not from rubber. After a through inspection all looks good. Tried blue RTV, liquid teflon but cannot get a seal there. Any suggestion short of replacing it again?

Last edited by Randoman1; 02-05-2018 at 01:37 PM..
Old 02-04-2018, 02:56 PM
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The leak your describing could actually be from the rocker arm just above the threads on this pipe. The rocker arms are not sealed by the valve covers and can leak on to the heat exchangers and other spots below the valve covers. Look at the pic below. The rocker for cylinder #4 can leak into that small curved void then leak on to the oil feed pipe.

Old 02-06-2018, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randoman1 View Post
Thank you to all the responses.
I sent the Turbo as a first step with the oil in IC and tubes. But after disassembly I found it to be in good shape then found the receipt from the previous owner with only 10K from new.
Got the oil level back in control and no more smoking but did fail smog. Pig rich and timing was about 36* with no more adjustment. Found the dizzy was one tooth advanced so got that going with 26* for a Cal. car. It has an appointment this Tuesday for a retune of the idle & mixture so hoping the smog gods smile down so I can get it registered. So far has been a good learning experience and I enjoy working on it.
Welcome to the forum, and 911 Turbo ownership. It's a cool place to be. Glad you got the smoking under control - sounds like it was just overfilled. As for the rich running - personally I'm a HUGE fan of the adjustable "Leask" WUR - I think now available through Brian (RarelyL8) - you can tune cold starts, boost enrichment and cruise, basically. Obviously great if you do any mods, but really the stock WUR goes out of spec over time, and good if you want to tune to your climate, too. Just a very happy customer.

Enjoy the 930.
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Last edited by turbo ride; 02-07-2018 at 02:03 PM..
Old 02-07-2018, 01:14 PM
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Get ready for the slippery slope :-) Plenty of guys here ready to nudge you over the edge.
Alan
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Old 02-07-2018, 01:46 PM
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Welcome to the forum, and 911 Turbo ownership. It's a cool place to be. Glad you got the smoking under control - sounds like it was just overfilled. As for the rich running - personally I'm a HUGE fan of the adjustable "Leask" WUR - I think now available through Brian (RarelyL8) - you can tune cold starts, boost enrichment and cruise, basically. Obviously great if you do any mods, but really the stock WUR goes out of spec over time, and good if you want to tune to your climate, too. Just a very happy customer.

Enjoy the 930.
I know this is the tried and true method, but the FrankenCIS setup is far, far, far better as long as you have a Lambda valve in place, which you do if its a US 86

Better, cheaper, and with the exception of the bung for the WBO2 if you need that can be done in a few hours now I've beaten that path, and removed without a trace just as quickly.
Old 02-07-2018, 07:34 PM
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