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Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
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Stronger box? G50 or 930

Probably a Matt question, but what's stronger box wise?

Forget the diff side, clearly the 930 wins.

But from a pure torque handling standpoint, does the 930 gears handle more torque than the G50's?

If the 930 is stronger, is it simply due to the much higher ratio 1st?

The gearsets of the 930 box have a huge advantage coupling to such a low gear ratio'd ring and pinion.

Been pondering.

Old 03-15-2018, 10:43 AM
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The 930 4spd was built to handle 750 HP and comparable torque. The 5 spd in the 89 onward 911 turbo maybe more but the other non turbo designed 911 5 speeds, maybe not. I have had some 930s with that kind of power and never had a problem with the stock turbo transaxle. I did have one failure but it was due to some dumb AZZ ( you know who you were), not refilling after a fluid change!
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Last edited by voitureltd; 03-16-2018 at 08:21 AM..
Old 03-16-2018, 08:18 AM
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gearhead
 
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G50 2nd on left, 930 2nd on the right. Virtually identical gear width and strength. No difference between g50 NA gears and g50 turbo gears. That’s an old wives tale.

The 7” versus 9” ring gear thing gets talked about on g50 NA versus g50 turbo but not something I would worry about too much. Bello ran both gearboxes in his car over the years.

If I were to rank them I should say 50/50 and 50/52 are strongest because of ring gear. Then g50 NA and 930 tied.
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Old 03-16-2018, 09:37 AM
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Good to know, so thanks. I have G50s in 3 cars now. One 930 Bello remembered but his was over 1 second quicker. All three g50s are still unbroken as are the other high HP 930 with 4 spds, however they are not near the HP he was putting out. I bought them this way but never checked out which G50 they are. So as you say they can stand up to or exceed the 930 4 spd,so I should be fine with the G50 upgrade no matter which ones I have.
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Last edited by voitureltd; 03-16-2018 at 11:18 AM..
Old 03-16-2018, 10:48 AM
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There's too much hype over the G50/50 IMO. We've had cars with sticky street 335-18s on the back, and 700hp/600tq, and the 1987-89 G50 took it just fine when re-fitted with a good LSD and billet side cover.
Add to that the Carrera gearing is about ideal for a general purpose street/D.E. Turbo. It's nearly identical to the gearing in the last two Ruf 5-speeds we've had in the shop.
If anything, add a Turbo 5th gear for more top speed and/or lower revs when freeway cruising.
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Old 03-16-2018, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboKraft View Post
There's too much hype over the G50/50 IMO. We've had cars with sticky street 335-18s on the back, and 700hp/600tq, and the 1987-89 G50 took it just fine when re-fitted with a good LSD and billet side cover.
Add to that the Carrera gearing is about ideal for a general purpose street/D.E. Turbo. It's nearly identical to the gearing in the last two Ruf 5-speeds we've had in the shop.
If anything, add a Turbo 5th gear for more top speed and/or lower revs when freeway cruising.
The 4spd I got from you is still just fine with this motor. Thanks, it is a sweet transaxle even after driving the ones with the RUF or the G50s.

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Last edited by voitureltd; 03-16-2018 at 04:28 PM..
Old 03-16-2018, 04:25 PM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Thanks Matt and Chris. Good stuff.

Dare I say, my car will launch harder than Bello's, *if* I choose so. I can launch with 1.4 of boost.

AFAIK, Bello never used boost off the line.

I don't think the G50 1st gear will handle, if the axles don't turn into pretzels 1st. Could be wrong, but 1st is really low.
Old 03-16-2018, 06:15 PM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voitureltd View Post
The 930 4spd was built to handle 750 HP and comparable torque. The 5 spd in the 89 onward 911 turbo maybe more but the other non turbo designed 911 5 speeds, maybe not. I have had some 930s with that kind of power and never had a problem with the stock turbo transaxle. I did have one failure but it was due to some dumb AZZ ( you know who you were), not refilling after a fluid change!
That's a bummer! If Matt says the 930 and NA G50 is a tie, we know Bello pushed his much further than 750 hp. Not to mention GJF.
Old 03-16-2018, 06:20 PM
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So is the Ruf 5-speed box a modified G50?
Old 03-17-2018, 05:17 AM
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gearhead
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocker View Post
So is the Ruf 5-speed box a modified G50?
A ruf 5spd is 930 based with a 915ish 1st gear in the tailcone. Look farther down pg 1 or 2 of this forum and you will find a thread with pictures where we recently discussed them.
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Old 03-17-2018, 06:49 AM
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Interesting and informative. I can only add that you have to consider the case deformation in any discussion about strength. Someone mentioned the billet side plate, so I gather that the carrier bearing support has proven to be a weak point. That is one example. The unsupported main shaft length is another. Basically, anything that allows the gear teeth to deflect from their ideal contact area.
Old 03-17-2018, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
A ruf 5spd is 930 based with a 915ish 1st gear in the tailcone. Look farther down pg 1 or 2 of this forum and you will find a thread with pictures where we recently discussed them.
The 930 short bell housing transaxle I have in a 77 930 @ 7K is 52 in first 85 in second 125 in 3rd, 150 in fourth and if it could get to 7K in fifth around 190. It is an old build 930 that Andial had something to do with in the day. Not sure it is even a RUF. It has a 930 trans number but not sure if it has a RUF tail cone. Any thoughts? I have to go against the spring towards the driver and reverse is up and first down with a dogleg shift to second. I've had it over 15 years 15K miles and no problems. It is a strong trans as the HP is estimated @ around 400 by Deiter @ Andial. I called shortly after I bought it as they had just rebuilt the motor again. Don't remember if I asked who built the transaxle when I spoke to him 15 years ago. It was an fast & furious car on the streets in the day as a Porsche club judge remembered it when attending those things when he was a student @ UCLA late 70s early 80s. It has a very unusual color, Royal Purple, probably the only 930 that color which is why he remembered it when being shown by me @ a Porsche concours about a decade ago. So it has had many hole shots and the trans is still fine, so a 915 first gear or could a better gear be fitted ?
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Last edited by voitureltd; 03-17-2018 at 07:45 AM..
Old 03-17-2018, 07:20 AM
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gearhead
 
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Anthony, that sounds like a Ruf conversion.
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Old 03-17-2018, 07:29 AM
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Thanks Matt, good to know. It must be an early one. Everything else about the car is old school.
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Last edited by voitureltd; 03-17-2018 at 07:50 AM..
Old 03-17-2018, 07:48 AM
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gearhead
 
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Ruf built their first 911 hot rod in 1975, the same year Andial was formed. I am not sure what year the 5spd conversion was released, but it wouldn't have been unusual for someone to take a few year old car to Andial and have them give it the works. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if the speed bits were added some time in the early 80s right as Andial hit their stride in the motorsports and tuning games.
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Old 03-17-2018, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocker View Post
So is the Ruf 5-speed box a modified G50?
The one in my Royal purple 77 930 is a short bellhousing 930 box. Back then the 5 spd turbo was not built so most likely that was RUFs doing. I believe RUF later made 6 spds from the G50 trans but that is hearsay as I have not seen or owned one with that conversion.
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Old 03-17-2018, 07:58 AM
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gearhead
 
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Ruf made not just a 5spd 930, but also a 6spd. They also converted 5spd g50 to 6spd before Porsche did.
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Old 03-17-2018, 08:57 AM
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Just curious, but if the only difference between the N/A and Turbo G50 is the size of the ring and pinion, what would it take to change the 7.5" to a 9" one in a N/A?
Old 03-19-2018, 03:37 PM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollies930 View Post
Just curious, but if the only difference between the N/A and Turbo G50 is the size of the ring and pinion, what would it take to change the 7.5" to a 9" one in a N/A?
A totally different case
Old 03-19-2018, 04:41 PM
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gearhead
 
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Can't put a size 9 foot in a size 7.5 shoe. The +/-30mm difference in the case lengths is for the larger crownwheel.

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Old 03-19-2018, 05:06 PM
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