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Alan L's Avatar
 
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OK, some things to try - just tried on mine.
Pull front relays , key on , airplate hooked up. Depress plate. Is the rear relay clicking? It should.
Do you have power at 86? You should (pull relay). Put relay back with alligator clip on 85. Depress plate. You should have power at 85 now, and not when airplate at rest.
Key off, pull relay. Ohms on 85-earth - should be 0.00 - perfect circuit. Depress airplate - should be OL (broken circuit)
Alan

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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)

Last edited by Alan L; 03-19-2018 at 09:33 PM..
Old 03-19-2018, 09:18 PM
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use a test light.!!

connect to ground.
check for power at pin 86
put relay back in, check for power at the AFM conn,
if no power, check the relay socket, the female side may be too big and not making contact with the relay pin.

connect AFM plug or jumper.
connect TL to power.
check pin 85
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Old 03-20-2018, 04:49 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T77911S View Post
use a test light.!!
I hear ya! Sorry to say I don't have one - - just a lot of volt-meters... I've Amazon Prime'd one here for tomorrow

I can definitely see a lot of uses for that little gadget... Thanks for the advice - I'll try to make it work with 12v meter in the meantime.

Shannon
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LIVN80S - - Red '79 Porsche 930 Steel Slant Nose Conversion [in 1987] w. 46k miles 3.3L; 964 Cams; K27HF @ 1.0 BAR, with Garrettson Intercooler; Rarly Zork; CIS Flowtech Fuel Head & BL-WUR.
Old 03-20-2018, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T77911S View Post
use a test light.!!

connect to ground.
check for power at pin 86
OK, with all back put back together,
1. Removed Rear Relay
2. Turned on Key - No Pumps due to Rear Relay Pulled...
3. Tested #86 Socket for 12v with Key On - - NOTHING / NADA - - The plug/recept. is in good shape and makes good contact. I definitely was able to get the Meter Prong to contact good metal... but, no 12v. Even tested the meter to the Fuse below and got a solid 12.7v...

OK, as I look at the diagram, there is supposed to be 12v here with ignition on. And, it shows the 12v comes from the "inlet side of fuse box #1." I'll assume this the the small fuse box at the rear of the car; as the other fuse box is described as "front fuse box" and I know where that one is... It will be hard to get at this fuse box without removing the Turbo Intercooler and Up/Down Pipes and may have to remove the BOV. This has all been done before, but I think I'll take my time and get the fuse box off and check all connections, etc... BTW: all my fuses are OK, so I'm not too sure where this particular 12v would be 'tripped' ??

Should I be looking at the 14-pin connector to see if it is feeding the fuse block correctly? I think I'll run an ohms check between #86 and all of the pins on the 14-pin connector...

Shannon
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LIVN80S - - Red '79 Porsche 930 Steel Slant Nose Conversion [in 1987] w. 46k miles 3.3L; 964 Cams; K27HF @ 1.0 BAR, with Garrettson Intercooler; Rarly Zork; CIS Flowtech Fuel Head & BL-WUR.

Last edited by mooney265; 03-20-2018 at 07:08 AM..
Old 03-20-2018, 06:14 AM
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Update Looking at the Rear Fuse Panel:
1. Removed the 14-pin Connector & Tested for Voltage with Key On.
2. The only Pin with Voltage is #14 - Is this correct? or, is there another supposed to be another pin with voltage?
3. When I plug in 14-pin, my CDI charges up and the 2 top 25A fuses get power...
4. For some reason, the bottom fuse 16A does not get power??

Onto the Rear Relay:
1. When I power on, #30 gets 12v - even when the 14-pin is removed...
2. But, #86 gets nothing... I've wigggled/etc. and No power at #86...
3. And, with 14-pin Connected, #86 still gets nothing...
4. Ran Ohms from all 14-pins back to #86 and I get nothing...

I've removed the Intercooler to get better access to the Fuse Panel. I'm still contemplating whether to remove the panel or not - so I can get a better look at the wiring going to the relay... Looks like it's 2-bolts?? Anyone got any experience with this??

That's where I'm at... Shannon
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LIVN80S - - Red '79 Porsche 930 Steel Slant Nose Conversion [in 1987] w. 46k miles 3.3L; 964 Cams; K27HF @ 1.0 BAR, with Garrettson Intercooler; Rarly Zork; CIS Flowtech Fuel Head & BL-WUR.
Old 03-20-2018, 08:04 AM
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I'm really close... Here's what I've done:

1. Put all electronics back in their place.
2. Put alligator clip on #86 of Rear Relay and plugged back in the relay... Clip is thin, so this is possible...
3. Connected other end to 12v
4. Turned on Key and Car operated as it used to - - no pumps.
5. Removed the AFM Connector - - pumps ran.
6. Pushed down on Plate - - pumps ran.

So, my problem is #86 PIN is not getting 12v. I just don't know where/how to trace the 12v accessory voltage which is supposed to supply #86 on this relay?

I'm showing the 14-pin has a constant 12v only on #14. There is no other voltage feeding into this connector with the key on or off... Is this correct?

And, if so, where does #86 get it's 12v ACC [Key On] power from? Shannon
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LIVN80S - - Red '79 Porsche 930 Steel Slant Nose Conversion [in 1987] w. 46k miles 3.3L; 964 Cams; K27HF @ 1.0 BAR, with Garrettson Intercooler; Rarly Zork; CIS Flowtech Fuel Head & BL-WUR.

Last edited by mooney265; 03-20-2018 at 08:30 AM..
Old 03-20-2018, 08:28 AM
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SOLVED!!!

I used this diagram to determine that Fuse #4 [#7 for us] supplied the 12v to the #86 pin of the relay.

I got to looking at that whole assembly, and turns out the little black wire at the top of the fuse panel [on #4] was not seated properly. Somehow, the screw was loose, and the black wire had been pushed down into the female portion so that the insulation was making contact with the metal. I do recall removing the fuse panel cover this weekend, and it was a bit tough getting it to pull off. I'm thinking my wiggling of the cover and the final "pull off" must have pushed that wire in somehow...

See diagram - - and, thank you to whomever made this - - it worked perfectly!! Shannon

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LIVN80S - - Red '79 Porsche 930 Steel Slant Nose Conversion [in 1987] w. 46k miles 3.3L; 964 Cams; K27HF @ 1.0 BAR, with Garrettson Intercooler; Rarly Zork; CIS Flowtech Fuel Head & BL-WUR.

Last edited by mooney265; 03-20-2018 at 09:04 AM..
Old 03-20-2018, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
OK, some things to try - just tried on mine.
Pull front relays , key on , airplate hooked up. Depress plate. Is the rear relay clicking? It should.
Do you have power at 86? You should (pull relay). Put relay back with alligator clip on 85. Depress plate. You should have power at 85 now, and not when airplate at rest.
Key off, pull relay. Ohms on 85-earth - should be 0.00 - perfect circuit. Depress airplate - should be OL (broken circuit)
Alan
So, now you are getting close - you have a dead circuit on the relay and it is not activating when key on - is in default/rest position - 87/87a syndrome. I will check thru the wiring diags and try and find the source for your power for 86. basically you have a bad connection on that leg. PROGRESS. My guess is , if you did the airplate/relay click test, it would be silent. Not operating. I did ask you to do this early on. We may have short cut this, but anyway - getting close :-)
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 03-20-2018, 11:39 AM
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Alan - - I solved it! See my previous post - - Thank you for all the help - - much appreciated!! Shannon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
So, now you are getting close - you have a dead circuit on the relay and it is not activating when key on - is in default/rest position - 87/87a syndrome. I will check thru the wiring diags and try and find the source for your power for 86. basically you have a bad connection on that leg. PROGRESS. My guess is , if you did the airplate/relay click test, it would be silent. Not operating. I did ask you to do this early on. We may have short cut this, but anyway - getting close :-)
Alan
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LIVN80S - - Red '79 Porsche 930 Steel Slant Nose Conversion [in 1987] w. 46k miles 3.3L; 964 Cams; K27HF @ 1.0 BAR, with Garrettson Intercooler; Rarly Zork; CIS Flowtech Fuel Head & BL-WUR.
Old 03-20-2018, 11:57 AM
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Ha, excellent. That diag is better than the factory one - which is really confusing. I was at the point of pulling individual fuses up front to see when I lost power. Can put everything back now.
Well done.
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 03-20-2018, 12:43 PM
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Where did you find that diag? Much better than factory. I could use that.
Makes you wonder how many 930s would not be running without this forum. I suspect half of them would be parked up in a shed with some mysterious problem.
Regards
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 03-20-2018, 01:06 PM
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Here's the thread which contained the diagram: A user named "Brasch"

Need help 930 1987 turbo wiring diagram
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Old 03-20-2018, 04:32 PM
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This is one of the smartest diagrams I've seen. Even shows some short-cuts on how to get the 930 moving, if you're on the side of the road...

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Old 03-20-2018, 04:35 PM
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This is one of the smartest diagrams I've seen. Even shows some short-cuts on how to get the 930 moving, if you're on the side of the road...

I think I've got that diag saved somewhere....always save the good sheeet for later on, you never know.
Right now my head is spinning on this now 52 long thread. Damn these cars, but that's what makes it "fun" in a twisted sort of way. Without this form, many of us would be permanently stranded.
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:45 PM
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One thing you could do, is pull pumps front relays (so they don't operate), turn key on and just open/shut airplate. If the sw is working you should hear click/click as the rear relay operates in concert with the sw.
Well, yes - 50+ posts. Butt - I did try and short circuit (pun) it at post #20. That would have taken us to the root cause.
but hey - it is a learning curve, for all of us. Every time these beasts throw us a curve ball. Thats why we have the forum and these cars still work . Mostly.
What else would we do? And hey, I would never have 'met' you guys.
Regards
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 03-20-2018, 07:06 PM
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WOW! I gotta say ...Mooney265, you did a great job.

And Alan, talk about above and beyond being just helpful. My hat is off to the both of you and the others that helped as there were many.

Nice work gentlemen!

I hate electrical work,

Rahl
Old 03-20-2018, 08:53 PM
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It is an awesome forum with great people, and great cars.
What else could you ask for.
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 03-20-2018, 09:46 PM
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It is an awesome forum with great people, and great cars.
What else could you ask for.
Alan
...that this entire thread be saved up in the sticky. Great distillation of a common problem. Save having to reinvent the wheel next time.
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Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.
Old 03-21-2018, 04:45 AM
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Thanks guys! Yeah, I was just telling someone this AM that "often-time the solution to an electrical problem is so easy - - the hard part is finding it!"

Shannon
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LIVN80S - - Red '79 Porsche 930 Steel Slant Nose Conversion [in 1987] w. 46k miles 3.3L; 964 Cams; K27HF @ 1.0 BAR, with Garrettson Intercooler; Rarly Zork; CIS Flowtech Fuel Head & BL-WUR.
Old 03-21-2018, 08:50 AM
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Thanks guys! Yeah, I was just telling someone this AM that "often-time the solution to an electrical problem is so easy - - the hard part is finding it!"

Shannon
Especially when you have a rats nest of wiring like this..... (mine)

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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 03-21-2018, 12:15 PM
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