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beancounter
 
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Very cool Alan, thanks for sharing. The standing start (as opposed to pace laps) is interesting...donít see that very often.

Porsche Club of America has introduced a vintage class in their club racing series. Itís gaining traction and people who have parked their air cooled race cars are starting to bring them back out.

Old 04-11-2018, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwasbury View Post
Very cool Alan, thanks for sharing. The standing start (as opposed to pace laps) is interesting...donít see that very often.

Porsche Club of America has introduced a vintage class in their club racing series. Itís gaining traction and people who have parked their air cooled race cars are starting to bring them back out.
Getting slightly OT, but if you guys are happy,........ that is what is needed here for the P club. The intro of the GT3 turned the racing on its head, and took over.
Our series is basically what you refer to - but all comer models. We had a mustang running last w/end that had laptimes about 2- 3 sec slower than GT3s. The GT3s are on slicks, we have to run road (race) rubber. I am about 6 sec behind GT3 times. The ambition is to get within 1-2 sec of GT3. Best laptime to date was last w/end - just before 7006 let go.
Regards
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 04-11-2018, 11:22 AM
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Did you change over to the 964T bypass valve setup same time you changed the turbo? Or had you been running it for a while with the 3LDZ before?
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Brandon
'91 911 Turbo
'00 Audi S4 highly mod'd DD
Denver, CO
Old 04-11-2018, 12:19 PM
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I changed over at the time of fitting the 7006.
I added a 964 IC and the plumbing for the 7006.
Trying to source a 7006 at the moment. Def none in the country here.
Regards
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 04-11-2018, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
Thanks Chris. Has to be a reason. Maybe this. I had just changed into 4th when it let go.
The diverter valve is the small plastic valve body on the rubber elbow?
How would I check it?
Yes, I can probably change the internals - I had a modded 3 LDZ. As long as the plate and housing body tie up with 930 or 930 S spec, I would be OK.
Looks like we are looking for another 7006 core.
Regards
Alan
Diverter valve: First, use a vacuum tested on the vacuum port of the valve. If it holds vac, that's good. Second, remove the vacuum line and try to blow through the side port (90deg to the vac port). If it holds air, that's good; if not, junk it.

We can put together a helluva cheater turbo that from the outside will look like a plain K27.

On high flow turbos like this, we sometimes fit a 2nd OEM diverter valve.
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Chris Carroll
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Old 04-11-2018, 04:17 PM
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Iím zero help here Alan.
But long distance fist pump. (And not the Rawknee type). I feel your pain.


Sent from my iPhone while Driving
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Old 04-11-2018, 04:39 PM
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Thanks Chris - definitely a consideration. Your help is always appreciated. I may be on to a 7006 - will know in a day or so. And depending what state it is in may determine which way i go with it.
Here is a pic of some internals. My turbo guy says no sign of a seizure - the bearings are like new. No marks on them or the shaft. But what bothers him is the heat damage to the shaft. he says discolouration is sometimes seen a few mm inboard of the hot wheel. but this goes all along the shaft - basically 'blued'. Also the hot housing has a hairline crack in it where the hot turbine rotates. he thinks the whole shaft has expanded with heat to the point the tension on the nut on the cold side was lost.
1979-930 - thanks for the condolences. But really, I celebrated the next night when I found the engine healthy. This is the best outcome I could have had. This is my first mechanical failure in about 18 yrs on the track. And you have to expect some of that every time you put the beast on the track. I count myself lucky :-) I do all the work on the car myself - suspension/brakes/engine etc. Except the turbo. And I take a lot of care to try and make sure things are right. So I am not beating myself up over this. Just trying to future proof. If it happened every few times I went to the track, I would be drowning my sorrows. But right now I am counting my luck.
Regards
Alan
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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 04-11-2018, 09:03 PM
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beancounter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
Getting slightly OT, but if you guys are happy,........ that is what is needed here for the P club. The intro of the GT3 turned the racing on its head, and took over.
Your thread so we can go OT as long as you're cool with it.

Yes, the new PCA vintage class is designed to offset the GT3 factor. Vintage class cars run their own practices and sprints, separate from other classes. The rules are very simple: Must have aircooled Porsche engine, factory tub (I believe no tube frame chassis allowed), 1983 and earlier, must have fully compliant safety equipment. Otherwise run what ya brung. The field is then divided into over 2.7 liter and below.

Good luck sorting that turbo out, and have fun with the racing.
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Jacob
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Past: 2009 997 Turbo Cab / 1979 930
Old 04-12-2018, 05:43 AM
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Since you installed the turbo and 964T bypass valve system at the same time - are you sure the bypass valve itself was installed properly? It can physically fit in there "backwards" too. Not sure what the consequences of that would be but i"m thinking the boost would push the diaphragm open and you could over-spin the turbo...?

Just a thought.
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Brandon
'91 911 Turbo
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Denver, CO
Old 04-12-2018, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwasbury View Post
Your thread so we can go OT as long as you're cool with it.

Yes, the new PCA vintage class is designed to offset the GT3 factor. Vintage class cars run their own practices and sprints, separate from other classes. The rules are very simple: Must have aircooled Porsche engine, factory tub (I believe no tube frame chassis allowed), 1983 and earlier, must have fully compliant safety equipment. Otherwise run what ya brung. The field is then divided into over 2.7 liter and below.
.
They nailed it. Bullseye. My only ? would be why divide to engine size. You can build a very quick 2.7. We generally run/separate on lap times. The P club has tried all sorts of permutations/combinations - Dyno test/HP, restricting tyres etc. Finally, they came down to; do what you want, run as you want, lap times will separate the classes.

Brandon - I had no idea what the diverter valve did. Just another piece of plumbing to hook up. But now have tested it as per Chris's suggestion above, and as per Spuggy's link. I now understand what it is trying to do and how it needs to work. It does check out. pic of arrangement below. As it is now, it is blocked off to the bottom port. So the turbo pressure stays in the IC system. Once the shut butterfly sucks on the small nipple (oh - Rawknees - I hear you running for the keyboard), it pulls the diaphragm open and the IC dumps into the intake line.
So, yes, as long as this pic confirms it, I am pretty sure this bit checks out perfect.
Regards
Alan

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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 04-12-2018, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
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They nailed it. Bullseye. My only ? would be why divide to engine size. You can build a very quick 2.7.
I had it wrong...the cutoff was 2.4 liters. But they expanded the rules and classing for this season. The VGTU and VGTO classes are new. Pretty sure my car which was eligible for VO class last year will fall into VGTU this year. Its stock displacement SC era engine (so nominally under 3L), but its fully built and I have a huge wing on the car.

From the 2018 Rulebook:

At selected Club Races there may be a Vintage Run Group for eligible cars. Drivers must have a PCA Competition License obtained under the normal Club Racing rules. Cars must have, or acquire at their first event, a regular PCA logbook, which must include the two annual compliance forms. All of the applicable safety rules for driver and car equipment apply. All of the rules for on‐track conduct, including the 13/13 rule, apply.

1. Eligible models: Only 1983 or older air cooled (356, 911, 912, or 914) Porsches.

2. Classes:
V4O for four‐cylinder over 2.0L
V4U for four‐cylinder under 2.0L
VO for six‐cylinder over 2.4L,
VU for six‐cylinder under 2.4L
VGTO for high winged and or aero bodied (Sheridan, AIR body kits) cars over 3.0L
VGTU for high winged and or aero bodied (Sheridan, AIR body kits) cars under 3.0L

3. Performance: Air cooled engine displacement is open, subject to the six class criteria. Cars must, at a minimum, be eligible
to run in PCA Club Racing. Tires are free.

4. Practice and Sprint Run groups: The Vintage Group will run in separate, Vintage only, sessions. Races will be 30 minutes or
less.

5. National Championship points are not available for Vintage Group


And the picture you posted has the bypass valve correctly oriented...perhaps you could cock up the installation but I think that would take effort.
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Jacob
Current: 1983 911 GT4 Race Car / 1999 Spec Miata / 2000 MB SL500 / 1998 MB E300TD / 1998 BMW R1100RT / 2016 KTM Duke 690
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Old 04-12-2018, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
They nailed it. Bullseye. My only ? would be why divide to engine size. You can build a very quick 2.7. We generally run/separate on lap times. The P club has tried all sorts of permutations/combinations - Dyno test/HP, restricting tyres etc. Finally, they came down to; do what you want, run as you want, lap times will separate the classes.

Brandon - I had no idea what the diverter valve did. Just another piece of plumbing to hook up. But now have tested it as per Chris's suggestion above, and as per Spuggy's link. I now understand what it is trying to do and how it needs to work. It does check out. pic of arrangement below. As it is now, it is blocked off to the bottom port. So the turbo pressure stays in the IC system. Once the shut butterfly sucks on the small nipple (oh - Rawknees - I hear you running for the keyboard), it pulls the diaphragm open and the IC dumps into the intake line.
So, yes, as long as this pic confirms it, I am pretty sure this bit checks out perfect.
Regards
Alan

Yep that's hooked up right. I figured it was but you never know.
One last thing I would do is make sure the diaphragm isn't torn. Just apply vacuum to the nipple. If it holds it's good.
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Brandon
'91 911 Turbo
'00 Audi S4 highly mod'd DD
Denver, CO

Last edited by turbo ride; 04-12-2018 at 01:09 PM..
Old 04-12-2018, 01:05 PM
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The nipple is holding vacuum - put my Mighty vac on it.(where is Rawknees?). And as Chris suggested - tried blowing thru the bottom port, when closed. Sealed. Also did the test on Spuggys link - push a socket up the bottom port (lift the valve/diaphragm) then block the nipple and remove socket. Should hold valve open. And it does.
It is working, and appears like it is plumbed OK. I am beginning to think my turbo guy is on to it - regarding the heat. The problem is I can't avoid that much heat.
Jacob - we would have to throw all those classes together to scratch up a field. population approaching 4M, spread over a country the length of approx 2000km. Getting enough cars to the track is usually the issue. Without splitting what we have. Which is why our class is reasonably popular (but we still struggle at times - they have had to 'bend' the rules to accomodate more participators ). I have been racing with this group since it began - around 2001. Before that Karts. The circuit racing was cheaper than Karts. Until I got the 930 :-)
Regards
Alan

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83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 04-12-2018, 02:45 PM
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