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Still trying to quit smoking

Thanks so much for all the advice so far and getting closer to the real reason I can't quit smoking but I really want to. It's a stock 1986 with the addition of a K27-7200 and 1 bar spring with 64K miles and runs great & strong. Oil level reads low until it warms up then reads just above the low fill mark. After about ten minutes of idling an unbelievable cloud of smoke appears. Finding lots of oil in the air cleaner hosing, air intake to turbo, air supply to IC and IC, the conclusion is it's coming in through one of the vent lines into the air cleaner housing. Disconnecting the vent line from the turbo oil separator tank and connecting to a clear hose suspended vertically, it begins to fill with oil. This suggests ether the scavenge pump is not keeping up or it needs a restrictor plate on the oil supply line. I removed the scavenge pump for inspection, no wear and looks to be in new condition. Checked the supply and return lines for blockage, all clear.
I could go with an electric scavenge pump but don't want to. It should work without requiring that. Oil supply restrictor plate? What size orifice? Not much smoke on start up but running around the neighborhood still smoking but nothing like at idle for 10 minutes. The turbo only has 10K miles. It was sent to Mikes turbo in FL, after their inspection, it showed no wear. Also no oil in exhaust manifold from engine. I really want to quit smoking this time for good, help!

Old 04-21-2018, 04:56 AM
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Sounds like the scavenge pump is not keeping up or lines blocked, but I’m more concerned why you’d let your engine idle for 10 minutes?

Those cylinders are cooking at that point!
Old 04-21-2018, 05:15 AM
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Make sure you don’t have a loose connection between the scavenge tank and the scavenge pump. That will allow the scavenge pump to suck air rather than oil. Eventually you’ll push oil out of the vent hose.
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:04 AM
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Is the turbo oil supply ball still in place and in the right orientation? That is really supposed to help keep oil from continuing to trickle into the turbocharger after shutdown, but people that have left it out accidently have reported that they got increased smoking while the engine was running.


Last edited by Rawknees'Turbo; 04-21-2018 at 08:37 AM..
Old 04-21-2018, 08:34 AM
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Test the scavenge pump. If it doesn't pass at idle, 2500, and 5000rpm, then rebuild it.

99% of the turbo builders in the country are rebuilding the K-series turbos wrong. It's not because theyr're incompetent, but because most rebuild kits are out-of-spec junk and they don't know the correct tolerances for these turbos. Contact our guy, Charlie Brown of Evergreen Turbo Co. in Ocala, FL -- we've done work together 20 years and his workmanship is 2nd to none.

Check the ball bearing is present in the oil supply fitting at the crankcase. It's a good idea to update that with our check valve at the same time.
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Old 04-22-2018, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randoman1 View Post
Thanks so much for all the advice so far and getting closer to the real reason I can't quit smoking but I really want to. It's a stock 1986 with the addition of a K27-7200 and 1 bar spring with 64K miles and runs great & strong. Oil level reads low until it warms up then reads just above the low fill mark. After about ten minutes of idling an unbelievable cloud of smoke appears. Finding lots of oil in the air cleaner hosing, air intake to turbo, air supply to IC and IC, the conclusion is it's coming in through one of the vent lines into the air cleaner housing. Disconnecting the vent line from the turbo oil separator tank and connecting to a clear hose suspended vertically, it begins to fill with oil. This suggests ether the scavenge pump is not keeping up or it needs a restrictor plate on the oil supply line. I removed the scavenge pump for inspection, no wear and looks to be in new condition. Checked the supply and return lines for blockage, all clear.
I could go with an electric scavenge pump but don't want to. It should work without requiring that. Oil supply restrictor plate? What size orifice? Not much smoke on start up but running around the neighborhood still smoking but nothing like at idle for 10 minutes. The turbo only has 10K miles. It was sent to Mikes turbo in FL, after their inspection, it showed no wear. Also no oil in exhaust manifold from engine. I really want to quit smoking this time for good, help!
Hi randoman1,

I was having the same issue after numerous rebuilds of my k27.
I would suggest if the up pipe from the turbo is filling with oil and the exhaust side is dry it maybe as mine was and it was the compressor side leaking.

Here is a pic , and I also had oil in the IC and air filter housing. Be it a large amount.

Should you want a clip on testing the scavenge pump there is a few on YouTube or I can post one.

Steve.


Old 04-22-2018, 11:55 PM
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Thank you for all the responses. The check valve is in place. I will be doing the scavenge pump test tonight although it looks new without any wear. The K27 only had 10k miles on it with the same smoking problem. I believe the oil supply is too large for the pump but will find out for sure tonight.
Old 04-23-2018, 04:18 AM
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Question

Update: Did the scavenge pump test to find the pump was quickly overwhelmed and the test tank filled. Had to end test or overflow.
I had removed the pump and found no visible wear on the cover plate and a tight fit of the gears. Looks like the stock pump is unavailable or replacement gears. The feed line is intact, clear and sealed.
I prefer the stock look to an aftermarket electric.
Thoughts, please share?
Old 04-23-2018, 06:24 PM
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Fairly sure that through my issues it was posted how to rebuild the pump and where to get the parts.
May have even been through pelican.
Old 04-23-2018, 11:15 PM
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The pump is not sucking any air? Fittings all tight, no small leaks? There was one posting a long time ago (J fairman possibly) warning about the scavenge line from the catch tank to pump. If fitted out of position, it can rub against the valve cover.
Alan
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:45 PM
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There is a small oil seal on the scavenger pump drive shaft that could be worn allowing it draw in air. But as Chris of TurboKraft said, there is a problem with the KKK rebuild kits related to the thrust bearing that causes more oil to flow.
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:04 AM
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Randomen, when you had the pump off did you note that the drive pin for it was present and not severely worn (that is the pin that passes through, perpendicular to the pump's shaft and is driven by the two bolts that are in the end of the camshaft)?

Also verify that the oil return hose and fitting (where it screws into the bottom portion of the main oil tank) is not plugged with coke deposits.
Old 04-24-2018, 08:08 AM
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I'll take a look at our host pelican for the rebuild parts. I do see where the supply tube to the pump has been rubbing on the valve cover at one time but is till intact and has since been relocated. I don't believe it is the pump seal, I have no oil leaks and for the return tube to the oil tank, I can blow through easily enough and pumps are better at blowing than sucking. The drive pin did have some wear nothing unusual. I don't want to go with the TurboWerx pump I bought but may have to if I can't find the two gears and that may not fix the problem as mine looks to be in new condition.
I'll be testing the electric pump tonight to be sure it will keep up. I'm still questioning flow rate to the turbo. Does the new K27 have less back pressure allowing more flow that the pump cannot compensate for? I'll take a look at some of the testing videos on UTube to compare.
Thank you for your input.
Old 04-24-2018, 11:08 AM
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Scavenge pump reseal

The original scavenge pumps almost never require replacing, and an electric scavenge pump would be a step backwards. Chances are that even if your engine has been rebuilt in the past, your mechanic did not rebuild the pump. Fortunately, the rebuild parts only cost about $70 and the job isn't difficult.

Here's a primer on re-sealing the scavenge pump:

1. Disconnect the oil inlet pipe (hollow bolt & banjo fitting) and return line. Remove the 3x nuts holding the pump to the smog pump pulley housing (or camshaft housing) and remove the pump.

2. Inspect the pump's cross shaft. If it is deformed or has burrs from riding against the camshaft’s drive bolts, smooth the burrs with a file.



3. Support the gear drive shaft in a vise – do not clamp the shaft, open it just enough for the cross-shaft to move freely.



4. Tap out the cross shaft with a punch.



5. Remove the 2x nuts holding the cover on and remove the cover.
The cover is also held with 2x dowel pins.
Gently strike the gear’s drive shaft to lift the cover, then pry apart gently.



6. Lift out the gears. Pry out the old shaft radial seal and replace [#999-113-246-40]. Press into place with a small punch of the same outside diameter as the seal (a small socket works well).

7. Smear a thick grease (ex: wheel bearing grease) on the pump gears to help prime the pump on startup.
Reassemble the pump, installing a new cover o-ring [#999-707-289-40].

8. Reinstall the pump assembly on the engine.
If you happened to remove the entire air injection pulley and housing, re-seal the housing to the camshaft housing using a new smog pump pulley seal [#999-113-464-40], and a new paper gasket [#930-105-197-05] with Loctite 574.

9. Reconnect oil lines, using new seal rings [M16x22] on the hollow bolt.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:56 PM
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The factory oil supply to the turbocharger is too much for the pump, but by design, the 3LDZ and K2x-series turbochargers act as an oil flow restrictor -- so what drains from these turbochargers ends up being a good amount less than the pump's capacity.

In contrast, a plain journal bearing T04/T3 turbocharger uses a full flow bearing design, so "too much" oil drains out of the turbocharger into the oil drain canister, more than the scavenge pump can keep up with. That's why those turbos require a larger scavenge pump.
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Last edited by TurboKraft; 04-24-2018 at 07:57 PM.. Reason: addition
Old 04-24-2018, 01:00 PM
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I got my scavenge pump rebuild kit from turbokraft after my turbo seals blew from (I believe) a failing pump. Worked perfectly and I know from experience that he stands behind what he sells with excellent support.

Call Chris directly and get what you need, rebuild it and then you can test the pump again and test to see if your turbo needs rebuilding. Mine did.
Good luck!
Old 04-24-2018, 06:50 PM
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Solution found: After performing the scavenge pump test with at test container I found the stock pump was quickly overwhelmed. Disassembling the pump I found it to be in like new condition with no wear. I purchased a TurboWerx Nano and repeated the test. The Nano quickly drained the tank. After installing the electric pump and some runs around the neighborhood clearing the remaining oil from the muffler & CAT the smoking was gone. I connected it to fuel pump #2. It is on a 15 amp circuit. It draws 4.7 amps, the Nano draws 2.4 amps @ 52 deg ambient. I did this so the pump runs only with the engine.
Conclusion: The replacement K27 allowed unregulated free flow of oil to the pump which was more than it could handle. See pic of its location. I fabricated a mounting plate to replace the original. Nice fit and location. Thank you all to those who responded. Now it's time to go out and spank it!

Old 04-29-2018, 07:29 PM
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Congrats,


Old 04-29-2018, 09:58 PM
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