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Guys - piggybacking on this thread - hope you donít mind.

Car is a Ď91 964T. 3rd gear at redline (full boost 1.0 Bar) my AFR is 11.0 and the adjustment on the WUR is maxed out - the piston on the back is pushed in as far as possible - as far as I can tell. Not sure if altitude makes a difference - and the 964T WUR has altitude compensation - but just in case - Iím in Denver at 5200 ft.

Anything else I can do to get to the coveted 12.0 AFR at redline?

TIA for any insight.

Last edited by turbo ride; 05-10-2018 at 07:46 PM..
Old 05-10-2018, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo ride View Post
Guys - piggybacking on this thread - hope you donít mind.

Car is a Ď91 964T. 3rd gear at redline (full boost 1.0 Bar) my AFR is 11.0 and the adjustment on the WUR is maxed out - the piston on the back is pushed in as far as possible - as far as I can tell. Not sure if altitude makes a difference - and the 964T WUR has altitude compensation - but just in case - Iím in Denver at 5200 ft.

Anything else I can do to get to the coveted 12.0 AFR at redline?

TIA for any insight.
I'm still learning about this too. But maybe if you post your Cold & Warm pressures some of the more experienced fellas will have some advice.
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1975 Carrera / 965 tribute w/ 1989 3.3 turbo 8.5:1, K27 7200, 964 cams, euro CIS, TEC1 dual plug, rarlyL8 headers & outlaw pipe. 915/68 trans, kevlar clutch and lightweight pressure plate.
Old 05-11-2018, 03:10 AM
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Minor Update - took the car for another drive on the weekend and when I got home I loosened my air filter and adjusted my AFR to 14.7 ish at idle from around 15.5, and then had to lower my idle back down to 900 RPM. The idle mixture screw was as described, push down and turn to lean or enrichen the mixture. I was able to peer thru my rear window and watch my Innovate Technologies gauge as I made the adjustment. Took a little effort to turn, more than I expected but probably better to be stiff adjustment since not alot is needed. So I think i'm all good in that regard.

Will also try to raise my enrichment pressure by.1 bar and see if it helps the mid range at all.
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1975 Carrera / 965 tribute w/ 1989 3.3 turbo 8.5:1, K27 7200, 964 cams, euro CIS, TEC1 dual plug, rarlyL8 headers & outlaw pipe. 915/68 trans, kevlar clutch and lightweight pressure plate.
Old 05-14-2018, 03:18 AM
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Idle AFR should be 13.0-13.5, cruise should be 14.5-14.8 (target). If idle is at 14.7 cruise will likely be too lean. Each engine has a sweet spot for idle AFR, I tune to that sweet spot and let cruise fall where it falls as this isn't my long distance vacation car so better running engine trumps optimal fuel mileage.
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Old 05-14-2018, 05:05 AM
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If rpm went up, it wanted the extra fuel - I do as Brian does. Do not get stuck on idle AFR number - give it what fuel it needs. Mine is around 12.5. It may be happier with more idle fuel than present.
You won't help mid range AFR much by increasing WP by 0.1 bar.
Alan
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Old 05-14-2018, 07:34 PM
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OK thanks guys, I didn't know what my idle AFR should be so I put it at 14.7ish. I'll maybe play with it some more soon and see if it makes any improvements.

Perhaps i'll leave my enrichment pressure as is until after my dyno session this Friday. Will be nice to have a graph of my AFR's.

I also noticed 2 spark plug wires had been touching and arching (white discolored area on red Clewitt wires), I wonder if that's contributing to mid range sluggishness. It seems like if I go hard thru the gears it gets up and goes great, but if I go hard into throttle in 3rd gear from a 40-50 mph roll, it doesn't want to go as well.
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1975 Carrera / 965 tribute w/ 1989 3.3 turbo 8.5:1, K27 7200, 964 cams, euro CIS, TEC1 dual plug, rarlyL8 headers & outlaw pipe. 915/68 trans, kevlar clutch and lightweight pressure plate.

Last edited by puddy; 05-15-2018 at 05:51 AM..
Old 05-15-2018, 04:00 AM
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Jumping in here because I hope to be working on this tonight or tomorrow.
I have a new Leask WUR that was set by him based on my modification list. I had the improved diaphragm installed and have the RPM delay.
Reading this thread and Brian's statement below I am assuming that I should just get the car running and up to temp.

First: I need to check the idle AFR and adjust if needed.
Second: If I have a rich or lean condition adjust the WUR pressures.
Third: Once AFR's are good through the range and on boost then set the delay RPM based on the AFR readings at boost or when boost comes on?? Not sure here because the OP is not running a RPM delay.
I have Brian Leask's instructions but it's good to get all opinions from those that have done it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Specs are set according to the engine modifications so should be close. System pressure, boost pressure and idle mixture all play a part. The idle mixture screw is spring loaded, you must push it down (gently) to engage the receiver. Push down too far and the engine will stall. Adjustment should be CCW to rich first then CW to lean. Only a tiny adjustment should be needed if any at all. I would set the idle mixture first, if needed, then verify warm pressure before going on to boost pressure. Once all done recheck the idle mixture.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:38 AM
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Hi Derrick, yes I think you've got that order correct.

1 - Set idle AFR - @ approx 13-13.5 as per Brian, adjust idle speed after if needed (big flat screw driver on the side of the throttle body). This can be tricky settig the Idle AFR mixture, i'm lucky that my arm is skinny enough to fit between the my custom intercooler and underside of the engine compartment and I can look thru the rear window and watch my AFR gauge change as the car is running. I read to rev the engine after making an idle AFR adjustment, whether it makes a difference or not, i don't know, but I did it.

1 - Check cold pressure, warm pressure & enrichment pressure to verify what you've got. Brian sent me specs of what my WUR was set to when I bought mine about 2 years ago, but this month I found my actual WUR pressures did not match what he sent printed on the written spec sheet. I'm certainly not saying Brian set the WUR wrong or the mis-recorded the specs he provided, but for some reason they didn't match, no biggie, I reset them and i'm glad to have learned something new about working my car.

Use or borrow a trickle charger for this. My car is fairly modified and probably easier than stock cars to do these modifications, but it still is a good 1/2 hr of fuel pumps running after getting intercooler off and CIS pressure gauges hooked up and battery on a charger and waiting for WUR to warm up then trying to make changes to pressures. I have a VOLT meter in my cigarette lighter and could see it draining the battery.

2 - yes adjust as needed, hopefully you'll be close already. Raise pressures to lean it out, lower pressures to enrichen them.

3 - RPM switch, sounds like an easy thing to play with once installed. Change RPM chips as needed. I'm not sure if you'd go to a higher RPM chip to correct a rich AFR or vice versa. But it should be pretty obvious after 1 or 2 changes & drives.
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1975 Carrera / 965 tribute w/ 1989 3.3 turbo 8.5:1, K27 7200, 964 cams, euro CIS, TEC1 dual plug, rarlyL8 headers & outlaw pipe. 915/68 trans, kevlar clutch and lightweight pressure plate.

Last edited by puddy; 05-16-2018 at 11:37 AM..
Old 05-16-2018, 11:33 AM
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Minor update, I bumped my enrichment threshold up .1 and went out for a rip. It seems like the lowest the AFR dips is low 11 then back up to 12-12.5 out to redline. Seems to pull best as is. I don't think I'll make any more adjustments to my WUR unless the dyno shows anything that looks off tomorrow.
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1975 Carrera / 965 tribute w/ 1989 3.3 turbo 8.5:1, K27 7200, 964 cams, euro CIS, TEC1 dual plug, rarlyL8 headers & outlaw pipe. 915/68 trans, kevlar clutch and lightweight pressure plate.
Old 05-17-2018, 04:49 PM
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Thanks everyone for all the great information in this thread. Really a great primer on the process to setup a welltuned CIS car.
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Old 05-18-2018, 03:02 AM
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Alan if you're around can you have a look at my Dyno thread and see my AFRs on the dyno. Let me know your thoughts if you'd leave all as is or make more changes.

Thanks.
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1975 Carrera / 965 tribute w/ 1989 3.3 turbo 8.5:1, K27 7200, 964 cams, euro CIS, TEC1 dual plug, rarlyL8 headers & outlaw pipe. 915/68 trans, kevlar clutch and lightweight pressure plate.
Old 05-20-2018, 03:05 PM
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AFR check after new turbo

Ok Iím too lean upper 13- low 14 AFR

When I first crack the throttle or rev the engine it goes lean to 14.5 for a couple seconds. Is this normal or something I can adjust?

Cold 1.9. Not totally cold. 80 degrees out and drove it about an hour before. So Brianís setting of 1.7 is probably correct.

Warm 3.55 lower than the 3.65 on the paper

1.0 bar boost 2.6. Slightly higher than the 2.5 on Brianís paper.

When I closed the valve the pressure went to about 90psi or 6 bar. Not 100 psi.
Turned the pumps off and it dropped to 2.2 bar and did not hold for more than 30 min. Started to bleed off.
Bad check valve?




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Last edited by 1979-930; 05-20-2018 at 03:33 PM..
Old 05-20-2018, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puddy View Post
Alan if you're around can you have a look at my Dyno thread and see my AFRs on the dyno. Let me know your thoughts if you'd leave all as is or make more changes.

Thanks.
I did have a look, just not a lot of internet where I am right now.
Ideally the top end would be lower AFR. Maybe tuning it won't give any more - you may be at the limit. In which case dropping WP will only make your mid range worse, and ideally it would/should be smidgeon higher.
How often do you plan at running at 6000 rpm? I would def not run any more boost tho and as I think spuggy? noted - he has run like that for some time. Your only other option is to try dropping WP by about 0.3-0.5 bar to get the 6000 rpm AFR down to safer limit, and put up with the lower AFR in the 4500-6000 range (assuming you fit a leask sw to deal with the rpm below 4500)
Alan
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:14 PM
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Thanks Alan, At the track I wind it up to 6800 ish often. Maybe I should change the enrichment threshold which sounds like a similar thing to the Leask switch. There are 3 screws on the back of my WUR that I can turn to change this. Maybe I'll experiment with that.

Derrick, my enrichment pressure was also set very low like around 2.7, so I moved it up to be within .5 bar less than my Warm Pressure and that made a huge difference to my car. Brought AFRs very close to where they should be. My neighbour rigged me up a fitting for my air compressor that had a 15 lb adjustable pressure gauge. Made it a lot easier to fine tune my pressure to simulate 13 lbs boost for the enrichment setting.
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1975 Carrera / 965 tribute w/ 1989 3.3 turbo 8.5:1, K27 7200, 964 cams, euro CIS, TEC1 dual plug, rarlyL8 headers & outlaw pipe. 915/68 trans, kevlar clutch and lightweight pressure plate.
Old 05-20-2018, 07:12 PM
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Chris,
I lowered my warm pressure to 3.4bar from 3.55bar to try and get the AFR's in the 11's and out of the high 13's. I will reassemble tonight and see where I'm at. Now that I'm in there I understand the process better. I have to lower my boost and get the AFR's safe before messing with the on-boost pressure and RPM delay. My WG's came with springs that are too large for my application.

I'll post the pressure changes, RPM solenoid changes and results to hopefully help other new guys like us in the future.
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Old 05-21-2018, 05:50 AM
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Any idea how to get more fuel at part throttle and up to 4000? I have the rpm solenoid set at 4K and Iím still too lean (14afr)from off idle to fuel dump. Then it goes to 11.2. Idle is still good at 13 AFR.
But I have another issue (misfire) over 4K I need to figure out. But thatís another thread.


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Old 05-21-2018, 08:59 PM
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^^^

Deez, maybe I'm not reading you right, butt why do you consider "off idle/part throttle up to 4K in the 14s" as too lean? I'm assuming that is not boosted running (WUR's WFO/boost enrichment not a factor), but cruising and/or steady, gradual, slow throttle?

By comparison, I'm almost always in the high 14s during partial throttle, non-boost running, and consider that just about perfect.

Also, are you taking the AFR readings while motoring down the road (under load) or while opening the throttle at a stand still (an earlier post or two of yours makes it seem like you are talking about throttling it at a stand still, but maybe I'm not understanding you correctly)? If you're looking at the AFRs in a no-load situation, they are pretty meaningless (except for idle, buttofcourse).
Old 05-21-2018, 09:10 PM
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^^^ Iím not that inept. While driving. 13 at idle and high 13 low 14 at cruising. If 14ís are good then Iím ok. I need to figure out my other issue and then set the boost dump pressure.


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Old 05-21-2018, 09:33 PM
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^^^

Theoretic perfect AFR for cruising is 14.7 (stoichiometric ratio), so you are actually on the rich side and sending a bit more than necessary unburnt fuel out of the tailpipe. I say "theoretic" as not all engines are going to run smoothly at that AFR - mine does and my steady highway cruising is even a few tenths higher depending on weather conditions, etc.
Old 05-21-2018, 09:47 PM
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I run over 15 at light cruise. Did that also when CIS but with the help of AIC-1 to control fuel. I have two AIC units available if any of you with fueling problems like to wrench/tinker a bit but then get enough fuel on top rpms too. For me dialing the AIC-1 to almost perfect was very easy.
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:23 PM
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