Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
puddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Garage
AFR check after new turbo

I just installed a new AFR gauge and an upgraded K 27 turbo. Some suggested I may need to adjust my WUR to accommodate. However after going for a drive it seems I'm at about 15 to 14 at idle and between 10 and 11 at higher rpm's. I believe this to be pretty good and hoping I can just leave my WUR as is. What do you think?
__________________
Cheers, Chris
1975 Carrera / 965 tribute w/ 1989 3.3 turbo 8.5:1, custom Evergreen K27 7200, 964 cams, euro CIS, TEC1 dual plug, rarlyL8 headers & hooligan pipe. 915/68 trans, kevlar clutch and lightweight pressure plate.
Old 04-21-2018, 04:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,624
10 is drowning in fuel and leaving a lot of power on the table.
Old 04-21-2018, 05:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
puddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Garage
Ok thanks Tippy. Can you recommend a link where I can read about what my AFRs should be?
__________________
Cheers, Chris
1975 Carrera / 965 tribute w/ 1989 3.3 turbo 8.5:1, custom Evergreen K27 7200, 964 cams, euro CIS, TEC1 dual plug, rarlyL8 headers & hooligan pipe. 915/68 trans, kevlar clutch and lightweight pressure plate.
Old 04-21-2018, 05:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,261
Sounds like you could just turn up the boost and dig it since you're getting more than enough fuel the way it is now.
Old 04-21-2018, 07:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Chain fence eating turbo
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,624
Quote:
Originally Posted by puddy View Post
Ok thanks Tippy. Can you recommend a link where I can read about what my AFRs should be?
Iíll let the CIS pros take care of you, but around 12 is a good median between power and safety.

Not sure how you adjust CIS to get you there!
Old 04-21-2018, 07:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,233
Depends a bit where the fuel is arriving in the rpm range. If it is all dumping at boost onset, you are probably below 10s for a fair rpm range. Not good.
The simple fix is to harden the Warm pressure in the WUR - adjust the diaphragm screw in . But before you do that it is really helpful to know what the pressure is now (warm). Normal range 3.6 bar +/- 0.2. If you are on the low side, that is the first fix. Then see where you get to with AFR. Then you can eliminate/delay the boost dump with an rpm switch and solenoid valve on the WUR boost line (Leask switch). Those changes should get you a much more sensible AFR curve. Low-mid 12s should get you close. You WILL feel the difference - much sharper response. You are drowning in fuel - not good for the engine, or performance.
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 04-22-2018, 12:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
puddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Garage
It's funny I already thought the car had sharp response. So how do I check pressures? Sounds like I have to buy some tools and do some more reading...
__________________
Cheers, Chris
1975 Carrera / 965 tribute w/ 1989 3.3 turbo 8.5:1, custom Evergreen K27 7200, 964 cams, euro CIS, TEC1 dual plug, rarlyL8 headers & hooligan pipe. 915/68 trans, kevlar clutch and lightweight pressure plate.
Old 04-22-2018, 04:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 1,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by puddy View Post
It's funny I already thought the car had sharp response. So how do I check pressures? Sounds like I have to buy some tools and do some more reading...
https://www.ebay.com/p/CTA-Tools-3420-Fuel-Injection-Tester-Bosch/1455414050

PM me your email address and I'll shoot over Leask's WUR tuning instructions.
__________________
Cheers,
Patrick
'78 930 #441
'87 951
Old 04-22-2018, 05:05 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Turbo Powered Snow Blower
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA .... Galveston, TX
Posts: 2,682
Garage
I just ordered this one a few days ago.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SG-Tool-Aid-33865-CIS-K-Jet-F-I-Tester-w-Case/400930491794?epid=672824579&hash=item5d5951cd92:g:RtgAAOSwstxVbMDB
__________________
Derrick
Old 04-22-2018, 06:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,802
pm sent

I have one , but have since gone EFI... I'm not too far. Philip
__________________
87 930 GHL/Rarlyl8/Garretson/GT3582R/1 Bar/Wevo shift, mounts/Meth inj/LM-2/Custom Fuchs/Carrera intake manifold/Xtreme Carrera heads P&P/3.4/DR 993SS cams/ Mahl/Pauter/JE/Niresist/ARP/twin COP/8.25:1/KEP stage 2/twin tials/close 2,3,4th. MS3Pro Evo 500+ HP, BTSOMP Dyno
Old 04-22-2018, 06:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by puddy View Post
It's funny I already thought the car had sharp response. So how do I check pressures? Sounds like I have to buy some tools and do some more reading...
Trust me. You have plenty more 'sharp' to come. The engine will come alive. The sweet spot is around 12 AFR, but it gets progressively better as you eliminate the 10s and low 11s. You are being robbed of plenty of HP.
Basically you will need to tune the WUR to around the 3.6 bar spec, if not already at that spot. You can push it as high as 3.8 if needed (this leans your fuel out across the range).
The other problem is the diaphragm in the WUR sees the boost pressure at boost onset (3-3500 rpm), and drops this Warm pressure by around 0.5 bar (3.6 down to 3.1). You will need to test this too - make sure not more than this. So on boost you actually run 3.1 bar (richens mixture). The problem is at 3500 rpm you don't need all this fuel - maybe at 6000 rpm but not 3500. But it is a crude system. So you can make it a bit more elegant by delaying this fuel dump til further up the rpm curve. The Leask switch blocks this boost signal til a predetermined rpm point (rpm pills). Then it it drops to 3.1 bar. Ideally you will set it so at boost your rpm and AFR will increase with the AFR going to around 12, Then the boost dump occurs (around 4500 rpm) . The AFR may drop to around 11 briefly then climb in to the low 12s ideally.
So you only have a brief moment (maybe 250 rpm ) in the low 11s. The car comes alive. Hang on tight.
Plenty of guys here to help you thru the tweeks. Look foward to the reports.
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 04-22-2018, 11:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,233
You will need a CIS check gauge - prob some guys here that can lend one. But it is a good investment for your car (since you now have AFR). And a Mighty Vac for checking boost dump pressure on the CIS gauge. Other than that - basic tools to tweek the WUR - allen keys.
This is the best/cheapest performance upgrade you can do for your car, and help your engine at the same time. Maybe $500 all up - CIS gauge, Leask switch, Mighty Vac?
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)

Last edited by Alan L; 04-22-2018 at 12:07 PM..
Old 04-22-2018, 11:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
puddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Garage
Thanks for all the info fellas. It really helps a lot! I realize now that I misunderstood AFR ratios.

Looks like I'll get Philips tool and start playing. ( where's Rawknees when you need him ) I think I can borrow a mighty vac from a neighbor. I'll report back soon!
__________________
Cheers, Chris
1975 Carrera / 965 tribute w/ 1989 3.3 turbo 8.5:1, custom Evergreen K27 7200, 964 cams, euro CIS, TEC1 dual plug, rarlyL8 headers & hooligan pipe. 915/68 trans, kevlar clutch and lightweight pressure plate.
Old 04-22-2018, 02:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Turbo Powered Snow Blower
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA .... Galveston, TX
Posts: 2,682
Garage
^^^ He's fallen into the abyss known as the Political Forum. We need to put together an intervention.
__________________
Derrick
Old 04-22-2018, 03:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,233
Running excessively rich fuel (AFRs 9-11) means you have more fuel than needed, sloshing around in your cylinders. Apart from robbing performance, it dilutes the oil which is carefully sprayed on the cylinder walls.
You engine will like you and you will like your engine.
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 04-22-2018, 04:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
puddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
Running excessively rich fuel (AFRs 9-11) means you have more fuel than needed, sloshing around in your cylinders. Apart from robbing performance, it dilutes the oil which is carefully sprayed on the cylinder walls.
You engine will like you and you will like your engine.
Alan
Ok interesting! Could this be partly why I'm going thru so much oil? Roughly 1 litre per 750 Km's?
__________________
Cheers, Chris
1975 Carrera / 965 tribute w/ 1989 3.3 turbo 8.5:1, custom Evergreen K27 7200, 964 cams, euro CIS, TEC1 dual plug, rarlyL8 headers & hooligan pipe. 915/68 trans, kevlar clutch and lightweight pressure plate.
Old 04-22-2018, 06:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,233
Nope. Just that what oil is in there for lubrication is compromised with too much fuel mixed with it.
A leak down test would tell you the health of the combustion chambers (re oil consumption). Otherwise, likely valves/guides.
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 04-22-2018, 07:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
puddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Garage
I think I'll grab a neighbour and go for a ran and get him to video the AFRs as I'm going thru the gears.
Does Leask still sell the switches? Anyone got one they want to sell? Does RarlyL8 have them?
__________________
Cheers, Chris
1975 Carrera / 965 tribute w/ 1989 3.3 turbo 8.5:1, custom Evergreen K27 7200, 964 cams, euro CIS, TEC1 dual plug, rarlyL8 headers & hooligan pipe. 915/68 trans, kevlar clutch and lightweight pressure plate.
Old 04-23-2018, 02:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
puddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Garage
So my AFRs are 14-15 at idle and 10-11 at top end, still to be confirmed soon via video camera, one evening.

But if I understand correctly. I need to enrich my low end and lean out my top end.

So I need to:
1 - set my cold pressure, or confirm its value compared to factory specs.
2 - set my warm pressure, or confirm its value compared to factory specs.
3 - Adjust the enrichment control pressure - lower the pressure to lean my mixture upon boost.

So correct me if i'm wrong, from what i've read, I believe I am able to correct my too lean low end with cold & warm pressures and correct my rich top end by leaning out the enrichment control pressure. However if i'm not able to get close enough I may need to enlist the help of a boost switch?
__________________
Cheers, Chris
1975 Carrera / 965 tribute w/ 1989 3.3 turbo 8.5:1, custom Evergreen K27 7200, 964 cams, euro CIS, TEC1 dual plug, rarlyL8 headers & hooligan pipe. 915/68 trans, kevlar clutch and lightweight pressure plate.

Last edited by puddy; 04-26-2018 at 04:29 AM..
Old 04-26-2018, 03:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
puddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Garage
Also I believe my CIS is an early non lambda version from the 1975 chassis, i'm not sure how that factors into WUR adjustments I need to make.
__________________
Cheers, Chris
1975 Carrera / 965 tribute w/ 1989 3.3 turbo 8.5:1, custom Evergreen K27 7200, 964 cams, euro CIS, TEC1 dual plug, rarlyL8 headers & hooligan pipe. 915/68 trans, kevlar clutch and lightweight pressure plate.
Old 04-26-2018, 05:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:13 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.