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If a 930 really only weighs 2800 LBS..

This of course is a RoW spec with no ac or sunroof

300 hp 2800 lbs equates to 1 hp every 9.3 lbs

330 hp 2800 lbs equates to 1 hp every 8.4 lbs. (RoW se spec)

This thought came to me as I was driving a 500 hp car that just didnt seem that much faster.. I mean it was faster.. but not near the punch the 930 has.. Then I discovered the sports car weighed over 4000 LBS..

Gosh simply on paper most high horsepower (400hp to 600hp) sport cars today baring hypercars donít have that much better if any better power to weight ratio.

This is why a 300 hp 930 was faster than a 390 hp testarossa..

I guess I donít see why some say the 930 isnít fast by modern standards.

Last edited by 93097004xx; 05-30-2018 at 04:49 AM..
Old 05-30-2018, 04:46 AM
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Yep and the tires are not happy at all with 4300 pounds on them.

Also the 4300 pound 'sports car' is too top-heavy to corner well.
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Old 05-30-2018, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Billings View Post
Yep and the tires are not happy at all with 4300 pounds on them.

Also the 4300 pound 'sports car' is too top-heavy to corner well.


Let me say that the car I was driving was NOT a testarossa it was a 2017 sports car..

Iím a testarossa fan as many of you know!


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Old 05-30-2018, 05:05 AM
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Yep. This mainly applies to the Luxury Sports Cars though.
I have had this conversation with many people. The modern sports cars may be able to produce big HP numbers to boost sales. But a lot of them weigh as much as a regular cab F150. Lots of safety equipment and computers to haul around.

My son, who is a 14 year old car nut, was complaining about a kid in school that's always bragging about his dads Austin Martin. I showed him the particular model weighs 4,070lbs and only has 470 Crank HP.
The ol' 96 Mustang could smoke it. 360 WHP at 3,200lbs
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Old 05-30-2018, 05:55 AM
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My 2014 Jaguar XKR coupe, supercharged, is 510hp and weighs 3,968. Lets say my no sunroof '86 930 is right around 300 hp now (no real idea, but a reasonable fuel map with FrankenCIS, K27/29, big I/C, RarlyL8 Hooligan), and US cali car with all the emissions stripped off guess 2,800 lbs.

Power/weight of the Jag, ~.13 hp/lb.

Power/weight of the Porsche ~.11 hp/lb

The Jag feels waaaaay faster, but is very linear without the rocket boost effect of turbo lag. I can hang the back end out on both quite nicely, they both handle very well although differently.

I certainly wouldn't bash either, I love the Jag too, and its definitely not "top heavy".

I'd love to get the Porsche into the mid-400's HP wise, then its approaching the power/weight ratio of an Aventator. In a car with no ABS, no power steering, no air bags, no active suspension, a real gearbox etc etc etc

I've been toying with the idea of adding an Exige to the stable....
Old 05-30-2018, 06:21 AM
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A new run of the mill v8 mustang or camaro will run away from a stock 930 of any vintage, straight line or curves. A few hot hatches would give one a pretty decent run as well. Newer 911s, M3s, V8 AMGs, supercharged Jags etc, are all much faster as well. Is there a modern high end sports car that can't run a low to mid 13 @ 105ish mph? Hell alot of them are in the 11s
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Old 05-30-2018, 06:40 AM
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If a 930 really only weighs 2800 LBS..

Quote:
Originally Posted by aschen View Post
A new run of the mill v8 mustang or camaro will run away from a stock 930 of any vintage, straight line or curves. A few hot hatches would give one a pretty decent run as well. Newer 911s, M3s, V8 AMGs, supercharged Jags etc, are all much faster as well. Is there a modern high end sports car that can't run a low to mid 13 @ 105ish mph? Hell alot of them are in the 11s


All these cars are a 40 years newer. I still donít think they would beat a 930 around the track by that much..

I could be wrong however as I donít know what a well driven 930 can achieve vs a 40 year newer sports car.


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Old 05-30-2018, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93097004xx View Post

I guess I donít see why some say the 930 isnít fast by modern standards.
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Originally Posted by 93097004xx View Post
All these cars are a 40 years newer.
Yes much newer, I thought that was the point? The 930 was one of the fastest cars around in its day, but aint all that fast in stock form by modern standards.

The most amazing thing about the 930 is that it was still fast in absolute terms into the late 90s early 2000s (subjective of course).
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Old 05-30-2018, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flightlead404 View Post

I've been toying with the idea of adding an Exige to the stable....
They are great fun. Let me know if you want to pick my brain about ownership. I had an Elise for a number of years before as well.
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Old 05-30-2018, 07:23 AM
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Torque and gearing has a big hand in this calculation, too.

Mine would have a P/W ratio of .16 (360hp @2400lbs)
Or about 6.7lbs/hp

But for some reason, I'd think a 2014 Jaguar XKR coupe might be able to beat me, mainly because of gearing. I dunno, never raced one though.

"The Jag feels waaaaay faster, but is very linear without the rocket boost effect of turbo lag. I can hang the back end out on both quite nicely, they both handle very well although differently."
Could it be that you're feeling the torque? (Maybe greater than what your Porsche is?)
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Last edited by flat6pilot; 05-30-2018 at 11:54 AM..
Old 05-30-2018, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flightlead404 View Post
My 2014 Jaguar XKR coupe, supercharged, is 510hp and weighs 3,968. Lets say my no sunroof '86 930 is right around 300 hp now (no real idea, but a reasonable fuel map with FrankenCIS, K27/29, big I/C, RarlyL8 Hooligan), and US cali car with all the emissions stripped off guess 2,800 lbs.
..
This reads like you are comparing crank HP to wheel HP? The Jag is 510 to the crank and with your mods I would bet your crank HP on the 930 is higher than 300.
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Old 05-30-2018, 12:09 PM
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Simple, not much torque until upper RPMís.

Larger displacement generally have torque right off idle 3.3ís will never have unless twin turbos
Old 05-30-2018, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93097004xx View Post
All these cars are a 40 years newer. I still donít think they would beat a 930 around the track by that much..

I could be wrong however as I donít know what a well driven 930 can achieve vs a 40 year newer sports car.


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Right. I don't think absolutely performance is the point. If it was, we'd all be buying a new car every few years.

The point is, which would you rather be driving? For me the Jag is the "date car". The 930 is not that much fun for a passenger. Its loud, smelly, uncomfortable, impracticable, expensive and......perfect :-)

Heck, if I found a girl who preferred riding in the 930 over the jag maybe she'd be a keeper hahaha.

They all have their place. For me, the Jag is replaceable. Lots of fun, but the 930 is irreplaceable and back in the day I could get it around mid-Ohio in under 2 minutes.
Old 05-30-2018, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flat6pilot View Post
Torque and gearing has a big hand in this calculation, too.

Mine would have a P/W ratio of .16 (360hp @2400lbs)
Or about 6.7lbs/hp

But for some reason, I'd think a 2014 Jaguar XKR coupe might be able to beat me, mainly because of gearing. I dunno, never raced one though.

"The Jag feels waaaaay faster, but is very linear without the rocket boost effect of turbo lag. I can hang the back end out on both quite nicely, they both handle very well although differently."
Could it be that you're feeling the torque? (Maybe greater than what your Porsche is?)
Could be. I don't have quantitative measurement of either, just qualitative. However on the motorway, the Jag has a definitely feel of immediate power. However, right now the 930 is needing a new clutch so.....

Point is, unfair to make a comparison on numbers alone. I don't know anyone on this list who is driving (or detailing lol) their 930 because they think its the fastest car they can get for the $. We're doing it because we love the 930.
Old 05-30-2018, 08:11 PM
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Don't forget rear end ratio..that's a big factor
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93097004xx View Post
All these cars are a 40 years newer. I still don’t think they would beat a 930 around the track by that much..

I could be wrong however as I don’t know what a well driven 930 can achieve vs a 40 year newer sports car.


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stock vs stock a new boxster s will destroy a 930 on road circuit. you wouldnt be even close with horseshoes or a handgranade. on drag strip it would be pretty close.

having said that...i had a 930 and wouldnt ever take a boxster over it.
Old 05-31-2018, 05:29 AM
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To add to my thoughts, torque is the thing 930ís lack the most until mid to upper RPMís.

Torque is what accelerates the car.

Case in point, you can have 1000whp Supraís that will do a given 1/4 or 1/8th mile elapsed time.

A V8 with the exact same 1000whp will do the same 1/4 or 1/8th mike in a much shorter elapsed time because the V8 will have torque all throughout the RPM range whereas the Supra will be very peaky at only the higher RPMís.

Torque rules for acceleration plain and simple.

Only way to get around low torque engines is having a lot of small gear ratio increments to keep the engine in the torque peak.

Then thereís terrible gear ratios of the 930 trans and very few of them.

I mean, itís all wrong for acceleration. Clearly the 930 was made for long winded runs, not stoplight to stoplight.
Old 05-31-2018, 05:41 AM
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I drove a 997 GT3 RS a few years ago and was unimpressed with it's acceleration vs my 930 and the GT3 has a listed 0-60 time of about 3.5 seconds.

I've also had seasoned racers who have been for a ride in my car say it's the quickest street car they've ever been in. My 930 weighs about 2650 lbs with 550 crank hp for a 4.8 lb/hp power/weight ratio. Throw in some turns though and the 930 is toast.
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:30 AM
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Put the power to weight ratio of a 930 into it's proper time perspective and they truly were exceptional. I cannot image back in 1978 running up on a bone stock 300HP Euro 930. Cars of that era were so incredibly underpowered. To even be having this conversion 40 years later is amazing. It's easy to bump the 930 100hp and keep it in the game.
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Old 05-31-2018, 10:42 AM
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please let's not talk about stock 930s in this context...because they are very slow by modern standards in stock form. As Bryan says directly above...its easy to add 100hp and improve throttle response through ignition timing adjustments and wake these beasts up and level the playing field a bit.

There isn't any getting around the fact that suspension technology has advanced and the modern cars will have a distinct advantage out of the box on a road course. Again, mods can help, but a 930 is never going to be the multi-link affair that a modern Boxster/996/997 is. So with mods you can hang with, and sometimes upset modern hardware, but you must drive really well (and essentially be a better driver than the person in the modern hardware). Like for like drivers and equal levels of prep on the cars, old will lose to new.

I do think the older ones are more fun to drive, which is why I race an '83...and now race a '92 as well
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:09 AM
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