Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
SBK930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Australia / Straya
Posts: 315
Garage
Smoke on boost ?

On the way home I decide to give my 930 a bit of a push,to see how the performance is now that I have put a few klm since the turbo rebuild.

So I dropped back to 80kph, shifted to 3rd gear and gave a good bit of throttle bringing the rpm to around 3200 with 0.8 bar with a shift into 4th gear only to see a cloud of smoke left behind me.

I did this a couple more times and again there was some trailing smoke all be it less than the first time.

Any ideas why this would occur ?
Old 06-01-2018, 10:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 23
turbo bearings
Old 06-02-2018, 02:19 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,522
Garage
Your turbo was recently rebuilt?
Oil is pushing past the seals causing the smoke. If your turbo was recently rebuilt what was the cause of the failure? If the underlying cause was the oil system and not the turbo you will keep blowing turbos.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 06-02-2018, 05:19 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
SBK930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Australia / Straya
Posts: 315
Garage
A bit more info to note:

I had a look under the rear as there was an oil spot on the garage floor and found it has come from the wastegate. The exhaust tip is dry and the wastegate wet.

Old 06-02-2018, 10:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
SBK930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Australia / Straya
Posts: 315
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Your turbo was recently rebuilt?
Oil is pushing past the seals causing the smoke. If your turbo was recently rebuilt what was the cause of the failure? If the underlying cause was the oil system and not the turbo you will keep blowing turbos.
Hello Brian,

This is the 930 in Australia which I had the turbo sent back 4 times before the turbo appeared to be fixed and since I have put around 100klms on it.
I did have an awful lot of oil throughout every part of the engine, even to the point of experiencing hydrolock.

Could it be possible that this oil coming from the wastegate be reminant from that ?

Steve.

Ps. It was turbo failure not oil system.
Old 06-02-2018, 10:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Mighty Meatlocker Turbo
 
Rawknees'Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: North TexASS
Posts: 10,370
^^^

Steve, that could very well be oil that entered the wastegate one of the times when your cylinders filled up with it to the point of hydrolock (although I am surprised to see that the oil is still so wet looking). Maybe do some more boosted driving, causing the wastegate to open, and see if it clears out before starting to get too worried about things like broken rings and/or severely worn valve guides (both of which could cause what you are seeing).
Old 06-02-2018, 11:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
SBK930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Australia / Straya
Posts: 315
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
^^^

Steve, that could very well be oil that entered the wastegate one of the times when your cylinders filled up with it to the point of hydrolock (although I am surprised to see that the oil is still so wet looking). Maybe do some more boosted driving, causing the wastegate to open, and see if it clears out before starting to get too worried about things like broken rings and/or severely worn valve guides (both of which could cause what you are seeing).
Hello Rawknees,

Do you think there is a way to clean the wastegate without removing it. It does not look as if it would be easily removed due to corrosion of the nuts and threads ?

Steve.
Old 06-02-2018, 11:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Mighty Meatlocker Turbo
 
Rawknees'Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: North TexASS
Posts: 10,370
Steve - no to cleaning without removing & dismantling, and I would not do that for the very reason you describe (just asking for trouble). If there is old oil in it, it will clear and burn out with a few more boosted runs, so if it says wet, then it will be time to start investigating.

The actual dump pipe in your picture could stay wet for some time, as it sees very little heat and air movement (relative to the rest of the exhaust). If you want, you can spray brake or carb cleaner in that to wash it out - won't hurt anything.

Last edited by Rawknees'Turbo; 06-02-2018 at 12:40 PM..
Old 06-02-2018, 12:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
SBK930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Australia / Straya
Posts: 315
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
Steve - no to cleaning without removing & dismantling, and I would not do that for the very reason you describe (just asking for trouble). If there is old oil in it, it will clear and burn out with a few more boosted runs, so if it says wet, then it will be time to start investigating.

The actual dump pipe in your picture could stay wet for some time, as it sees very little heat and air movement (relative to the rest of the exhaust). If you want, you can spray brake or carb cleaner in that to wash it out - won't hurt anything.
Will break out the brake cleaner, and give that a go.

Thanks mate.
Old 06-02-2018, 01:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,522
Garage
Quote:
I had a look under the rear as there was an oil spot on the garage floor and found it has come from the wastegate. The exhaust tip is dry and the wastegate wet.

That's a whole different problem. The wastegate sits higher than the J-pipe which means god knows how much oil is in the entire system. You really need to know where this is coming from. In your shoes I would remove the J-pipe then each bank of exchangers and examine everything. If whatever caused all that oil to be there is no longer dumping oil then you can wash out the entire system. If the problem has not been cured you will find where it has it's origins.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 06-02-2018, 04:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,265
Maybe you just need to do a track day so you can blast all that crap out... maybe not while someone is right behind you.

When you get tired of it all ditch the mosquito fogger turbo and get a Garret.
Ball bearing GT35R or a GSX61. Chris at Turbokraft is very helpful here and he can fix you up.
Old 06-02-2018, 05:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
SBK930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Australia / Straya
Posts: 315
Garage
Thanks guys,

I donít get to drive it much so after getting it out and giving a few good boosted runs I will respond with the results.
Old 06-02-2018, 07:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
RarlyL8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 13,522
Garage
Quote:
It was turbo failure not oil system.

Turbo oil system failures often cause turbo failures.
If the oil in the exhaust is from an old problem that is now fixed I would still want to clean it out of there. Coked oil in the wastegate and turbo can be harmful and it sure isn't efficient to the exhaust system as a whole.
__________________
RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 06-03-2018, 06:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
SBK930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Australia / Straya
Posts: 315
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBK930 View Post
Thanks guys,

I don’t get to drive it much so after getting it out and giving a few good boosted runs I will respond with the results.
Having a little joy here in OZ.

I have taken my 930 out a couple of times now and found after the engine is well warm/hot I have brought it up to boost to the point now where there is no smoke exiting the exhaust. I figure the residual oil from the oil pumping turbo has finally burnt out.

So wanting to tap into the brains trust here I am wondering if there is a reason that after parking in the garage I am finding oil leaking from the rubber boot that connects the compressor side to the intercooler. But it is not a lot and the stain is about the size of a baseball. I will add that there is virtually no smoke at start up even if not started for a month.

Thanks Steve.
Old 10-12-2018, 03:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,247
That could still be old oil in your system. Pull the other boot off - the one that enters the turbo - see if it is dry. If it is, the oil on the other side has to be coming via the turbo. It could be it is wet on both sides and the inlet side not leaking. In which case look above the inlet boot and see it is dry. In which case, you are back to the turbo.
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 10-13-2018, 10:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
SBK930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Australia / Straya
Posts: 315
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L View Post
That could still be old oil in your system. Pull the other boot off - the one that enters the turbo - see if it is dry. If it is, the oil on the other side has to be coming via the turbo. It could be it is wet on both sides and the inlet side not leaking. In which case look above the inlet boot and see it is dry. In which case, you are back to the turbo.
Alan
Will do, thanks Allen.

When done I will post what I find.

Steve.
Old 10-13-2018, 11:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Alan L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,247
If the inlet side is dry, then you prob need to confirm there is not fresh oil in the exhaust system - the drive side for the turbo. Easiest way is prob to remove the turbo (you may have some other option - O2 bung or similar). Hard to imagine fresh oil sitting in exhaust for long, and would be constant smoke. But if the exhaust side is dry and the intake side is dry, that means it must be from the turbo oil system.
FWIW I tore my engine down twice looking for same issue. Replaced heads/guides/seals. Bolted up and run. Same result. Turbo had just been rebuilt. So tore down again and replaced P/cs. Same result. Scratching my head, a P mechanic/racer said it would be the turbo. I ruled it out because;
it had just been rebuilt, and it was only on gear shifts (at WOT). Changed turbo, problem went away. Aaargh. Two engine teardowns for nothing. Character building.
Regards
Alan
__________________
83 SC, 82 930 (track) - Stock except for RarlyL8 race headers, RarlyL8 Zork, K27-7006, 22/28 T bars, 007 Fuel head, short 3&4 gears, NGK AFR, Greddy EBC (on the slippery slope), Wevo engine mounts, ERP rear camber adjust and mono balls, Tarret front monoball camber adjust, Elgin cams, 38mm ported heads, 964 IC. 380rwhp @ 0.8bar Apart from above, bone stock:-)
Old 10-13-2018, 04:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:09 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.