I need a roller.

Sell it to me less the motor and trans.

If you want to save the case, I would call Ben/MB911. See if he's willing to take it on. If so, tear it down, box it up and ship. Shipping is probably $50-60 each way. Since he's a pro welder and also understands the details needed for the correct fix of a Porsche engine, he's one of the few people I would trust to do it right.

Ollies also has a lot of experience. I have a sand cast case with a gap between the a spigot and the case parting line up top. A rod end flailing around can saw quite a slot in a case. They told me they could fix this - they'd cut out a patch from one of the various even worse damaged cases they have, machine things so the patch would slide right in, weld, machine, and the case would be fine. As it happens, I have a couple of these cases, so didn't need to have this done, though maybe at some time I will so I can sell a functioning case. A damaged case like this probably isn't worth much.

O think they are in Arizona these days, if that's more convenient than where Ben is.

Updates...

Stopped in at my local machine shop, showed them the pics, and although they'd like to see it in person, they were pretty confident that it was fixable.

The process they said they would go through was similar to what several of you mentioned:

• disassemble
• v the crack
• clean
• heat
• bolt it back together with a spare steel bar or an old crank to prevent warpage of the mains
• bolt it back together
• weld the outside
• take it apart and see if the inside should be welded while bolted to a fixture
• drill/tap drain plug
• check for warpage
• reassemble

At the same time I'll have them check the bearings and we might as well do the top end and check the pistons, cylinders, and rings.

If I deliver them the short block it would be between $300-$500. Seems reasonable.

I think JB weld is out in my mind because the crack goes through the drain plug which means that won't be sealed nearly as well as it once was.

While under the car yesterday I noticed a small indentation on the front portion of the crack. My guess is that's where this whole thing started. It would take a direct smack to crack one of these cases. The gradual nature and spread out load of a jack probably wouldn't do much, unless a crack was already started from some other sort of impact.


The roller is my favorite part of this car, 1986 Moss Green over Tan :D

Sounds like a good welding plan. If I remember the architecture correctly,the crank bearing webs are mostly if not entirely up higher than the cracked areas. Your crank and existing main bearings ought to work as jigs - hard to see that enough heat would get to the crank to make it break a sweat. I suppose a steel bar of exactly the diameter of the main bearing journals might be better, as for this purpose you don't want the clearance built into the regular crankshaft assembly.

Yea, agreed on the heat getting into the crank/bearings. They're probably being extra cautious.

@Catorce, have you priced out what a basic 3.6 build might cost using one of your blocks and with your discount on LN Engineering products and whatnot? I'd love to stop by sometime and see what you guys are doing since you aren't too far away.

Gabe,

I don't yet have prices on the LN stuff, but I can tell you that it will be cheaper than what he lists it for retail, because LN bought a bunch of my cases and we are trying to work together.

There are only 4 production slots left at $5000 per case, and beyond that I have two good sources for parts to finish the motors - LN as already stated for P&C and Autobahn Dismantlers in San Diego who parts out all the Singer stuff. They have like 49 good cranks and tons of quality parts to make a 3.6, and once again, through me, they will be cheaper than a direct sale from Autobahn because I worked up a special deal with them.

I am in San Juan Capistrano if you want to see the case progress. Not done, but lots to see and compare with a stock case. PM me for contact info and thanks for your interest. Oh, and website in my sig has all the details and latest updates.

Great, thanks for the quick response! Just shot you a PM so we can link up.

I'm not sure where you are on this project but I have a left/distributor side case half I could sell you. Cheap
The other half has a magic window

Competition Engineering could match the cases if that was necessary.

Hey Henry, awesome! Glad I made this thread and you found it. I sent you a PM.

Hell yeah!! Pics please?

Ask and you shall receive... I started a build thread: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1025818-project-avocado-1986-moss-green-911-rebuild.html

Who doesn't love a good resurrection/redemption story?

More pics, just because. It looks like the drain plug has had an insert installed, you can see from the closeups. That probably added stress to that area, then something hit the bottom of the case and it cracked all the way across.

Still haven't decided what to do. I think I would like to do a 3.6 swap, which means that I'd be selling this one.

If I am going to sell it, the questions is what sort of trim should it be in? Sell it as is, rebuild it myself and sell, or have a reputable shop (like Competition Engineering) rebuild it and then sell? What do you all think?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1556482523.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1556482523.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1556482523.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1556482523.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1556482523.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1556482523.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1556482523.jpg

That is some cracking. Wow. Both sides, across the two halves!
I hadn't noticed how symmetrical the two castings are, though. What about you have all the cracks welded, weld up the oil drain hole (because the crack goes right through it), and drill and tap the other side for your drain. It will puzzle some shop guys doing an oil change, but they'll figure it out when they see the welds.

It almost looks like a downward force did this. What if someone tried to screw in an iron pipe thread tapered plug, used a lot of force, and that fractured the case? It looks like it started at the drain bung. Though sending a crack across an interface to the other side?

The shop doing the welding ought to be able to see if 1) the crank journals are currently properly aligned, and 2) see to it that they stay aligned throughout the welding. 1) should be some assurance that the force which caused this cracking didn't distort the middle part of the case.

The threaded insert is in every engine case. See the parts diagrams below and I highlighted #46

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1556547318.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1556547332.jpg

I have said it before and I will say it again. Throw the case away. Replacement 3.2 cases are plentiful on the used market. They are not hard to find like 3.6 cases are.

To reference Smokey Robinson I second that emotion, looks like a anchor to me.

I'm no expert, but if I wouldn't feel comfortable driving a car with cracks that large, that had been welded. I think it should be discarded.
Sorry.

Zero evidence anything "struck" the bottom of the case.

Over tightening the drain plug wouldn't crack the other side of the case.

Had water in it then froze?

Something gone down inside the engine?


Edit, now I see the scratches on the case. Seems minor given the damage.

Jim
-Visible scratches look like what you'd see on any case this old, plus how to explain apparent downward force?

=Frozen water interesting, but will water unconstrained (i.e., surface open to air/environment) cause a pan-like container to crack? Think of an ice cube tray? Could it have been filled to the brim with water which froze? That might do it?

-Your point, plus fact that threaded insert is standard in drain hole, kind of shoots down the oversize plug notion I had.

-I've blown up more 911 engines than I care to remember. After a blow up, if you examine the fiberglass engine cover back over the cylinders, and see cracking or other damage, that's a pretty good indication that a rod bearing failed or a valve dropped, and the cylinder itself was broken, and the connecting rod flailed around or otherwise got loose, and busted the cylinder, and dis some sawing on the case spigot. Could also break the oil pump, and the intermediate shaft splined end broke off, and somehow I even had a cam shaft break in two.

-But none of these attacked the lower part of the case. The pump/IS stuff is in the way, and there are those cross case webs as well. And these assaults have always had at least some external evidence, cracked cylinder at least, even if it didn't burst.

-When a stray nut (like the lock nut on a rocker arm adjuster) gets loose, and travels down the oil return tube, it isn't really much of a worry - it will probably end up in the bottom of the sump, well out of harm's way. Same with stray nuts you drop into a chain housing while doing something in there.

-So some internal force (a spinning crank has plenty of energy to bust a case)sounds like the most reasonable suspect, but what would the force path be?

If the advice to just get a used case is followed (a cost/benefit analysis would be useful - what would Ollies or CE or some equally good shop charge, vs. cost of used case, but worries about welding working seem misplaced)or not, it seems this engine needs to be disassembled. That will reveal the condition of the internal parts, because those are what will need to be transplanted to either a repaired or a replacement case. Visual inspection ought to give some clue to how this happened.
-So if the owner lets us know what he finds, we will all learn something, as this is pretty unusual.

Just pure speculation as this is an interesting and hard to fathom crack of both case halves

We know its a flood damaged car, was transported above the cab of an open transport in April from KY to CA. When transport arrived in CA cab was covered in oil leaked from Porsche.


My guess -
Engine filled with water, oil floating on top. Somewhere on the trip across country the engine froze, water expanded, cracked the case, thawed, water and oil poured all over cab. :eek:

Or

Ever see how the wrecking/impound yards pick up cars with a forklift and toss them around? Would think there would be some evidence of the forks impact though, heat exchangers would get crushed, right?

Unfortunate mystery...

Meh, it's essentially an oil pan down there, not really structural. If I didn't have any plan to sell this engine at some point (which still may or may not happen) I'd be more than ok with welding the case.

Welding the case is $300-$500. A used case half is 2-3x that amount but anyone interested in it would likely vastly prefer a case with zero issues unless it was a sweet deal.

It only looks minor because I cleaned it thoroughly. When it was still grimy it was easier to see.

I'm on it. Slowly taking things apart as I have time! Either way, you'll all know what I decide to do.

Matt, I've thought about it too and the forklift theory is very plausible if it was fine prior to going to the yard. I'll unfortunately never know because I stupidly didn't have the car inspected prior to bidding. Now I know better than to ever do that again.