Aftermarket Fuel Mangt Sytems ?

[juan ruiz]

If you have to choose one Aftermarket Fuel Mangt System which one could you choose and Why?

[TimT]

I would choose EFI or Motec as first choices if money is not a constraint. The software interface with these is/or was DOS based and not very intuitive.

Electromotive has alot of backers. The Tec2 and Tec3 are state of the art (according to some) EFI, but a pain in the balls to calibrate. I have also heard the electomotive coil packs are less than reliable. Some HPX dont even last the tuning period

Haltech has a really easy user interface, which is why I like it. I have dyno tuned cars with Tec2&3, Motec, and Haltech F9A and E6 brains. I have also tuned a Link system. The tuning interface should be easy to understand and intuitive. Some of the systems are hard to wade through.

You should buy a system that your tuner is most familiar with. All of the aftermarket ECU's offer the same thing, they control fuel and spark. and they measure the same operating parameters. ambient/coolant temp, throttle position, manifold pressure/vacuum. Each manufacturer has an algorithm that they feel provides the best performance.

Best way to find out what is working best is to go to the track, and see what the winners are using.

[Wayne 962]

Tec-3 is the best bang for your buck - I have not heard of any warranty concerns with the coils (whomever had the problems might have had something wired incorrectly). Besides, their customer support is good as well.

The Motec system is good as well, but it does the same stuff as the (relatively new) Tec-3 and is about 1/2 the price...

-Wayne

[juan ruiz]

I keep hearing "NITHMARES" (problems with the sequencial and other misc) about the Tec 3 this comming from some good tuners, so I want to be 100% sure before I make my move.

[TimT]

Juan,

The Tec3 is a powerful ECU, but it is a pain in the ass to tune. The electromotive software interface is a pain in the balls. You can get great results with the TEC system but it will take alot of dyno time (we got 375 rwhp from a NA 3.4).

If the tuners are telling you that they have issues with the TEC3 that should be enough to raise some flags!

Haltech is an easy to tune unit, but they have recently closed their US retailer.

Motec has relaxed its price a bit.. the M4 can be had for about $1700 , then you need to add coils, a trigger, wiring harness, sensors, etc..

What system do the tuners recommend? they will be able to make you more power with a system that they are familiar with..

[brianhinfl]

I found that tuners will say that certain systems will "work" on a NA engine, but they would never recommend it for a turbo engine.

There is also the intended usage, street/track. That will influence choice as well. Make sure you are taking all of that information into account went researching an aftermarket EFI system.

[juan ruiz]

Thank you guys!

Tim, this subject is like asking a woman what is the best perfume ! You can NEVER get a good answer, I been told that the Halatech will do the job but many complains of Idle, it works good full open,so far of couse the only system that everyones agree too is that MOTEC is the king others have mention DTA ,Autronic ,SDS, Accel, and a few others, in my case my issue is that why paid for a high price system when I probably will not use all the goodies,for my application which is Street Drag Racing for the 1/4 and 1/2 mile, I like the features of the DTA ,Traction control,Launch control etc is around $ 3800 Install,do you have any idea what is the Motec with the necessary goodies? is the motec M4 for 4 cylinders? What do you feel is my best choice?

[TimT]

Juan,

I helped my friend tune a 993 twin turbo using a Haltech E6A, the car has a rock steady idle at 850rpm, and is easy to drive in stop and go traffic. It also controls fuel to 1.5 bar, egt and a/f numbers are fine.

A 3.3 single turbo we built makes almost 900hp ( this is batchfire+staged injection) the second set of injectors fire after 1 bar boost is reached.

Im sure the needs of a 1/4 mile car are much different than the road race cars that I play with are.

The Motec M4 can batch fire your injectors, and waste fire the coils. The M4 has boost control,antilag,flat shifting, and launch control capabilities. The M4 with the front and rear wheel speed sensors, the micro switche for the clutch, and the boost control valves, when installed will easily be $3800, probably more.

Then you need to dyno the car, figure $1000 for dyno time.

I have never tuned a car with DTA but have heard good things about them.

My advice would be to talk the the tuner you will use and ask him which engine management system he is most familiar with. Then buy that sytem.

You dont want your tuner to "learn" a new engine control software on your dime.

Tim

[juan ruiz]

Tim, Good advise! thanks

[beepbeep]

If you are not computer-challenged, are short on cash and only need "basic" EFI stuff like fuel, spark, closed-loop lambda, direct-fire and batch injectors then SDS is best bang-for-back outthere.

It has all other have, and is 50% cheaper. It's a bit trickier to program though, as there is no fancy laptop-software...you do it with little LCD-programmer.

If you are not 100% familiar with how EFI works and need something user friendly that dyno shop around the corner will be able to tune in, i believe new Haltech thingie is best buy. It has all zingy stuff that more expensive systems have and is priced lower.

People tend to forget that MAP-sensors, filters, injectors and rails cost the same regardless of EFI.

[turbo6bar]

Juan, you should check with Tracy Grimm. http://www.tgfab.com/

I believe he has SDS and may be experienced with TEC-3. If I'm not mistaken, he's in Jacksonville, FL or thereabouts. Plus, he has experience with turbo 911s. You and Tracy would get along well.

Jurgen

[Wayne 962]

The new version of the Tec-3 software is supposed to be much easier to use...

-Wayne

[juan ruiz]

Thanks again guys.

[TimT]

The Tec3 is lightyears ahead of the the Tec2. The new Tec3 lets you save changes on the fly. With the early Tec2 chips, you had to test the changes to your settings. Then shut the car down and load your changes.. The later Tec2 let you reflash the chip without shutting the engine down. The Tec3 is much easier to use than the previous iterations... There are so many good aftermarket ECU available I think it comes down to what your tuner is most familiar with.

[juan ruiz]

I have been talking to one of my Horsepower advisors and the AUTRONIC brand came around one more time any opinions? I been told that it was develop by some fellows that were directly involved on the Motec development

[TimT]

Juan Ive heard that Autronic was started by some x Motec employees.... but this is all 3rd 4th 5th hand info..if your hp guy is familiar with Autronic, it makes sense to use Autronic for your ECU?

[juan ruiz]

Thats the same inf that I got so it must be true so far I got

Tuner A/ will install DTA has used Halatech
Tuner B Autronic he uses Motec and has used electromotive 1&3
Tuner C Factory Motronics with Pressure sending and Mass flow
Tuner D SDS but have use many of them he like Autronic
Tuner E Nothing but Motec
Tuner F Accel has use many of them he claims that for the $ best buy
Tuner G electromotive but he is dying to try something else I guess he is fed up

This is what I mean on how to choose one system

[beepbeep]

EFI's are stupid things that inject apropriate amount of fuel according to air being swallowed by the engine and give spark on right plug when time is in. They do that by checking look-up tables. They also provide fuel enrichment during cold starts and adjust mixture somewhat if lambda says so. They can control boost. That's what 99% of people need and what all of mentioned EFI's do.

After that you pay for gizmos. Some of of them have fancy Windows-based software that will present you with nice graphs, others can raise engine RPM when AC-compressor kicks in, thir can do fancy bang-bang-bang antilag stuff. That's where price jumps up 2-3 times. Decide what you need from there.

I'm a cheapskate so i like SDS. It does everything it should and doesn't cost a fortune.

[Lukesportsman]

I've lurked here for months, but decided to respond for the first time. What a great forum with open minded nonabusive attitudes.

I've ran SDS for a few years and would recommend it over trying to mickey mouse around with changing a factory set EFI. It is a simple system and that is not all bad. If your going to try and run a prog. EFI from your own garage, I would strongly recommend. If your looking for the best with less concern about easy interface or cost, I would suggest to keep looking.

Nice things are that it doesn't require a laptop to program. Works easily with boost of 1-2 bars. I've ran up to 14 psi, myself. Cost vs. product is probably best out there. Very good website and friendly tech. Takes up little interior space. Can be ran with different ignition choices and coils. Opens the choice to varied injector types and secondary controllers. Lots of amateurs running it and you could easily get it up and running at home with some additional gauges, then take it to the shop for tuning. This, if an issue, could save lots of $$$ for simple labor.

Not so great that there isn't a laptop interface. Can be too simple for some indications. Is batch fire and no MAF input. Little live feedback on one screen. No graphing or ability to read afr on the fly. At least when I purchased, didn't have heated O2 sensor, but may have changed over years.

This wasn't specific to the question but I thought could be valuable for later archive searchs. All depends on what you want out of an EFI system, but if want to drive it the same weekend as the installation SDS could be a choice.

Glad to be part of the community.
Luke

[juan ruiz]

Luke, welcome aboard! and I THANK YOU VERY MUCH! for your input and is very nice to hear from someone that has actually use this SDS System on a 911,now since you have this specific system

I ask you a few questions,for what I been told!

1)I hear that is some what a pain to tune, reason is that you can Only make ONE change at the time and you must go back and forth to tune,making it kind of hard to get all the parameters at once ?

2) I look at the Price $1300USD or so for $300 or so more you can have a system that has more uses don't it make sence to go a step further ?

3)contrary to other systems I imagine that it could be a extremely difficult to see your parameters as you drive ?

Then again Im not putting the system down or anything else Im just curiuos.

beepbeep

I have to somewhat disagree, this "Gizmos" could make a BIG difference between wining a race or losing a race (of course we are talking about the type that we do) I think that some of the options like Anti Lag,Launch control etc could give "us" a "edge" my biggest concern is the Technical Support behiand the product,for some of us that spend countless hours in a dyno to extract every once of Hp this is extremely important.

BUT Im sure that for some of the people that are not at the Extreme level that we are any system will do.

But is like anything else what work for some people dont work for others.

Is amazing how this subject is so complicated,but soon we will find the answer.............I hope