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-   -   Eric's "Budget" 3.0L Build (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/1089756-erics-budget-3-0l-build.html)

detroit 08-02-2023 10:02 AM

I used the Supertec studs for a couple of reasons.
The first being that they were (at least at the time) less expensive that the ARP variants. My spreadsheet says I paid $865. The ARP's were pushing a thousand.
Secondly, I had spoken to Henry previously (and since) for advise on my build. He was generous with his time with full knowledge that he would not be retiring early on account of a massive influx of cash from yours truly...
That means something to me.
I did for what it's worth use ARP rod bolts.

detroit 08-05-2023 05:28 AM

Well, I got the timing chain housings on, and I installed my new DC40 cams from Dougherty. It was only when I went to attach the cam sprockets that I realized the noses of these new camshafts are different from the noses of my old camshafts... I guess you could argue that that was not very observant of me, but in my defense I never opened the boxes to compare the two sets. Upon receiving the new cams, they went straight into a cabinet for safe keeping. That was probably a year ago!...
Anyway, panic stricken I called John. He matter of flactly informed me that I just needed the later style bolt and washer, and that EBS Racing has them in stock. Thank you, John; the parts are on their way. And they weren't even expensive!

detroit 08-05-2023 06:23 AM

Something else that I've been working on - because I have a touch of ADD - is a new sump plate.
The one that came off of my motor was kind of beat up, and warped like a tortilla chip. Pelican used to sell this cool cast version that I planned to replace it with, but it seems they're no longer available. So, I milled it flat, and sent it out with everything else to be plated. Even shiny it looks pretty ghetto...
Now a sump plate is not a terribly complex part, so I figured I could make one. It's prolly a little premature to discuss this, as I've still plenty of time to screw it up, but...
I designed one up, and ordered the billet. The lathe work is mostly done. Unfortunately, I had to order a bit of tooling for the mill before I can finish it.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1691244436.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1691244436.JPG

dlagerstrom 08-06-2023 12:52 PM

Ron LaDow still makes the machined version.

https://www.precisionmatters.biz/911-sump-plate-w-plug.php

I have one for the 911 and one for the 912. Very nice.

Might save you some time. Although, it is fun to make this yourself.

Just an idea.

Thanks for the thread.

-Dave

porschedude996 08-09-2023 04:52 PM

Eric, i’m right behind you. I too find myself doing it right and I like the thought of a bit of fresh OEM Bling that was on our engines when they were new.

So how is your transmission? Mine is in the middle of a major overhaul.

detroit 08-10-2023 04:08 AM

Well, Porschedude, I'm not sure... From a condition standpoint, it's great. I had it gone through just a few hundred miles ago. But, it's the original 901 box. Whether or not it's suitable for this new motor, I guess we'll see.

porschedude996 08-10-2023 08:11 AM

Ouch, a 901 with with mag case is not what I would think is great. Me personally, I like the shift pattern on the 915. My suggestion is to use the best gear oil and keep it full. I speak with experience, bought my car and it had maybe 6 oz of oil and should have had 3L. But I don’t need to tell you that…

colingreene 08-10-2023 09:10 AM

901s are awesome and I really like them when they are working correctly.
the shift pattern just takes a little bit of thought.
But driving any older car does and thats more than half the fun to me.

detroit 08-10-2023 11:08 AM

Yeah, Colin, I have no issues with the 901 as it is, and I also like the dog leg first. Particularly because it's the same as my other '70's money pit...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1691694100.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1691694100.jpg

ToySnakePMC 08-14-2023 03:39 AM

I always enjoy dropping in on this engine build thread from time to time. Great pics and very interesting content. And now a little tease about the other 70’s era garage mate... Yes please - share as much interesting stuff as you care to here! I think we’re all ears about neat cars and fun projects regardless of brand...

detroit 08-14-2023 05:44 AM

@ToySnakePMC, thanks for the comments. I didn't want to side track this thread with things other than the actually build, but I guess I screwed that up when I posted the photos of the shift knobs....
The 914 stablemate is a '77 308GTB. It's such a great car.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1692020503.JPG

detroit 08-14-2023 06:12 AM

Back to our regularly scheduled programming...
The new cam sprocket fasteners arrived, so as soon as I have some time I can recommence assembly for my piston/valve clearance check.
I also picked up a new crank pulley. This thing ain't gonna have A/C, so I didn't want the extra belt groove. I liked the idea of maybe going to Clewett's serpentine set up, but I know there is very little room between the motor and the 914 firewall. It also looks (from the images I've seen) as though the tensioner bolts to the same boss that the motor mount uses. In the end, I didn't want to spend the additional cash...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1692022161.jpg

PeteKz 08-15-2023 10:53 AM

Nice work Eric. I've considered making a sump plate out of Lexan so I could see what's collecting in the sump, but I'll probably never get around to it.

detroit 08-17-2023 05:12 AM

Well, it's not perfect - I'm very much an amateur machinist, but all things considered I'm happy enough with it. Now it's off to get anodized...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1692277843.jpg

detroit 08-17-2023 05:25 AM

There are a couple of things I could use some help sourcing, so please chime in with any advice.

1. Engine wiring loom. I'd really like to be able to just plug this thing into the factory
914/4 board.

2. Flywheel/clutch package - 3.0SC/901

Any input would be most appreciated...

icarp 08-17-2023 05:41 AM

Kennedy engineered Products for the clutch and flywheel
Just the best stuff from them, they make it easy.
Get the organic performance clutch, 360 surface

detroit 08-18-2023 08:25 AM

Dropped it off for anodizing last night. picked it up this morning...
Detroit's a great city for this type of thing.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1692375876.jpg

Old H2S 08-18-2023 12:01 PM

Dang..

detroit 08-23-2023 01:16 PM

I mentioned that I have a touch of ADD. Well, the result of that is an inability to tackle one project at a time. I've got twenty going. Always. It can be frustrating (for everybody else), because I've got s**t everywhere that's ninety five percent finished. I DON'T want that to happen with this engine build/swap, but there are lulls while I'm waiting for this, that, and the other.
So, awhile back I picked up a cheap set of IDTP's. They had bits broken off in the castings.
After a bit of time in the Bridgeport, not to mention a bunch of time re-Alodining, cleaning, procuring parts, and assembly, I finally got them put back together! I'm not a hundred percent sure what I'm going to do with them yet... Probably I'll include them with the 914/6 motor when I shift it.
Anyway, It's been some time since my last post, so I figured I'd share a couple of pics.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1692825236.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1692825236.jpg

detroit 08-28-2023 08:26 AM

Finally... After a bit of a debacle getting the correct length studs, I got my new sump plate bolted on. I'm rather pleased with how it turned out.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1693239791.jpg

porschedude996 08-28-2023 08:42 AM

Keep it coming…

porschedude996 08-31-2023 09:24 AM

He must be working at his job or so deep in his shop with the door locked. Are you getting food and water through a small prison meal port?

detroit 08-31-2023 10:24 AM

Nah, PorscheDude, I've just been working, waterskiing, etc., etc.
I'm trying to find a good solid block of time with which to get things accomplished, but life keeps getting in the way. I'm hoping to dedicate Monday to finishing the valve to piston clearance check.

mikedsilva 08-31-2023 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detroit (Post 12077319)

Don't forget your air baffles...

porschedude996 08-31-2023 08:21 PM

Hey Detroit, you said you’re working for the Tower. Is that the three glass towers on Jefferson with the Marriott Hotel inside?

I’m not at all familiar with the plant locations, but I stayed in the Marriott a cold of nights. I was looking to by a 69 Yenco Camaro. The owner lived a couple doors down from Edsel or Shoreline Drive. Ai must say that is a very dreamy drive from the GM glass tower to the lake. Wink-wink.

detroit 09-01-2023 03:04 AM

@mikedsilva, thank you for the oversight. I haven't forgotten the air deflectors. You'll notice the drain back tubes are missing also. I've assembled it this far in order to do a valve to piston clearance check. Once confirmed I'll strip it back down and put it back together with the sealant, gaskets, etc.

@porschedude, I haven't been in the Renn Cen since GM bought it. Powertrain world HQ used to be in Pontiac, which is ten minutes north of me. But... For some mystifying reason they moved us back to Warren several years back. It's never made any sense to me. All of our dynos are still in Pontiac, as well as (prototype) engine build. All that said, I only go into the office one day a week...
Did you happen to take a tour of Edsel Ford's place? It's worth the five bucks. Super cool residence.

porschedude996 09-01-2023 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detroit (Post 12080237)
Did you happen to take a tour of Edsel Ford's place? It's worth the five bucks. Super cool residence.

No wonder the guy has money, he charges to tour his house. I must try that myself ;). Not knowing Detroit’s layout, we may be talking about two houses. I drove by Edsel Bryant Ford II house. Edsel (II) and I call each other bud and dude. Hah! That’s a stretch.

detroit 09-11-2023 04:45 AM

Alright, I've made a mistake, and could use some advice...

I finally managed to get this thing built up enough to check the valve to piston clearance. Finding the time has been challenging of late, and I had to make a few more tools. Specifically, a couple of dummy chain tensioners and a tool to grab the nose of the cam to prevent it from spinning when I pulled the dowel on the cam sprockets. They were easy to make, but still ate up a bit of time.
Anyway... I timed the cams, double checked them, triple checked them, and was quite pleased with how close I managed to get to the specified 4.5mm of overlap for my chosen DC40's. Not that it matters as I've stripped the whole thing back down to pistons and cylinders.
This is where I realized I effed up. I had the heads pulled off when it dawned on me that I had just plain forgotten to install the exhaust rockers... Duh.
So... Do I put it all back together, and do it again? Or, have I gleaned enough data from the intake side to infer that I've enough clearance on the exhaust side?
The pistons are Carrillo 9.5:1.
I cannot provide an exact intake valve to piston clearance, but it is greater than 3.5mm.

My latest homemade tools.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1694435789.jpg

Damned close to 4.5mm. The other bank wasn't far off either.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1694435789.jpg

porschedude996 09-11-2023 05:10 AM

You know the answer Detroit. You’ll never live with yourself if you don’t recheck the exhaust valve to piston clearance. I think I know you and you may be cut from the same fabric as I (Aerospace Design Engineer) read “Anal Retentive”. I have had many a Homer Simpson expression “D’oh” in my hobbies, as well as work. As long as the Woo-Hoo’s follow the “D’oh,s you’ll be good.

porschedude996 09-11-2023 05:19 AM

By the way, I need to make something like your tools for my build.

stanglife 09-11-2023 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detroit (Post 12080237)
@mikedsilva, thank you for the oversight. I haven't forgotten the air deflectors. You'll notice the drain back tubes are missing also. I've assembled it this far in order to do a valve to piston clearance check. Once confirmed I'll strip it back down and put it back together with the sealant, gaskets, etc.

@porschedude, I haven't been in the Renn Cen since GM bought it. Powertrain world HQ used to be in Pontiac, which is ten minutes north of me. But... For some mystifying reason they moved us back to Warren several years back. It's never made any sense to me. All of our dynos are still in Pontiac, as well as (prototype) engine build. All that said, I only go into the office one day a week...
Did you happen to take a tour of Edsel Ford's place? It's worth the five bucks. Super cool residence.

Still want to find the gathering spot for Porsche cars during the Dream Cruise! Will be back again next year! :)

ItzaMe 09-11-2023 08:39 AM

Coming along very nicely.. I think you might have to put it back together but it will be worth it..

Are you planning to post your final cost figure for this "budget 3.0 build"

I'd be curious to see what it cost you overall. I just got a 3.0 Targa and haven't dug into it yet.

detroit 09-11-2023 10:03 AM

@Itzame, I hadn't thought about posting my net expenditures, but it would make sense. I initially kept track of all the costs on a spreadsheet, but kind of lost my way on that. I've kept all receipts though, so just need to add it all up.
...And then check myself into the nearest hospital.

Joesmallwood 09-11-2023 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detroit (Post 12087217)
@Itzame, I hadn't thought about posting my net expenditures, but it would make sense. I initially kept track of all the costs on a spreadsheet, but kind of lost my way on that. I've kept all receipts though, so just need to add it all up.
...And then check myself into the nearest hospital.

I kept track of mine on a spreadsheet. It's really scary. The trips to Cinque Terra, Amalfi, the alps, etc, that I could have taken make me cry.

detroit 09-12-2023 05:43 AM

So, yesterday I called the cam man himself, John Dougherty. After discussing my situation he concluded that I'll have plenty of exhaust valve clearance, so I guess I'm free to assemble for good. I still have a niggling feeling that I should go through the process again just for confirmation, but...

ItzaMe 09-12-2023 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detroit (Post 12087217)
@Itzame, I hadn't thought about posting my net expenditures, but it would make sense. I initially kept track of all the costs on a spreadsheet, but kind of lost my way on that. I've kept all receipts though, so just need to add it all up.
...And then check myself into the nearest hospital.

Hahah! I am finishing up the remodel on our house so trust me, I know about keeping track of the spreadsheet costs.. or lack of!! I will be doing the same thing here shortly and the number will probably not sit well with me but oh well.

If you end up seeing what it costed you, I'd be interested in hearing that for sure.

I'm in Cleveland so if you ever wanted to rebuild another one with some margin for you, maybe I can be your first customer! Just a thought :)

porschedude996 09-12-2023 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detroit (Post 12087829)
So, yesterday I called the cam man himself, John Dougherty. After discussing my situation he concluded that I'll have plenty of exhaust valve clearance, so I guess I'm free to assemble for good. I still have a niggling feeling that I should go through the process again just for confirmation, but...


I got my cams and rockers back from him a few weeks ago. I went with a 964 grind. How about you?

PeteKz 09-13-2023 03:58 AM

Detroit, if John D says it’s okay, I would not worry about it. However, your final safety check should be after you assemble the cam housings and cams and set the timing, then go to the overlap TDC and screw in the adjusters until the valve Contacts the piston. Count the number of turns it took to touch the piston. Each turn is 1mm. You should have 1.5mm or more. I like to go back and forth from TDC checking several points to be sure that the clearance is adequate through that period of overlap.

detroit 09-15-2023 11:22 AM

@ItzaMe, I just did a rough tally of what I've got into this thing thus far. $11,135.
That includes estimates of the powder coating and case cleaning.
It does NOT include the cost of the engine itself, the Webers, the exhaust, oil tank and lines, or motor mounts. Nor does it include the clutch and flywheel which I have yet to purchase. Same with the wiring harness. I'd put a copy of the spreadsheet on here, but I'm (A) not that computer savvy, and (B) don't know that my suppliers want all their information published. If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me.

@porschedude996, DC40's are my chosen cams.

@PeteKz, Thanks for the tip.

detroit 09-15-2023 12:44 PM

Umm.... I forgot that I also bought a 123Distributor, coil, and wires for this thing. Can't remember what I paid for it all. I'd have to look through my credit card statements.


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