Yea, Henry. ...I'll get one. Just not on the urgent list as I'm still waiting on my crank from David along with a pile of other parts.

Dan -- I agree there's pressure drop due the torturous path of the oil follows through all those turns however I would think that trying to push that oil through a fan folded piece of paper would be biggest drop.

From the technical forum.

I'll pick up on dannobee's thoughts: Joe, the oil pressure graph you posted compares the output of the oil pressure pump, which goes directly to the engine internals, NOT through the filter, as in most other engines. Remember, in our 911's, the SCAVENGE pump is what pushes oil through the filter. Thus, you should compare the scavenge oil pressure before the filter to the filter outlet pressure. Furthermore, the outlet pressure from the filter should be zero, because it just dumps into the oil tank. Given those differential pressures, I suspect that filter bypass is much less of a concern in this setup than a conventional oil system. I also expect that filter efficiency is different than the published "52%" for conventional oil systems.

This is a very different setup than most engines, and the results will be different too. I don't doubt that the Hubb is a superior design, but we have to compare apples to apples to see what it does for our 911's.

Hi Pete -- Stock 993's have an oil filter in the scavenge line on the bottom of oil tank and in the pressure side on the right side of motor per the pic. The output of the oil filter feeds the main oil galley on the top of the right side case.

Joe, fair enough. I looked back at the thread, and see that you are interested in the the 993 application. I'm interested in the application for earlier engines with one filter on the tank.

A std 993 OC229 is a long life synthetic paper with very high dirt holding capacity. If you run a GT3 pump then the dP across it will be verging on the lower tolerance of the bypass valve lift press. It's filtrationefficiency is about what Henry said.

The older OC74 Mahle filter off the 964 3.6 Turbo is larger and made from more conventional paper with a higher bypass lift pressure. It's filtration efficiency is about 10% higher and dirt retention is lower, hence why it's a good if short change filter as opposed to 40k interval in the OC229. This would be my choice for a GT3 pump equipped engine.

As far as the Hubb. I'm really struggling to see any actual benefit. The first claim regarding TBN number is obsolete now. With low sulphur fuel you simply dont see anyone in the industry bothered about TBN any more. Especially in the sports car market. We dont run heavy fuel over massive intervals.

"Made from surgical stainless steel and aircraft grade aluminum" this isn't a surgical application or an aircraft. All filter manufacturers make steel mesh filters, but they're not used in car oil filter applications because they only use mesh effect. Car oil filters use several effects to bond the foreign materials to the fibres. The filter is tuned to the application by getting the velocity of the flow into the paper correct to allow the electrostatics and impingement bonding to occur

"Filter-in-a-filter design" thats fine. OEMs can do that if needed.

"Improves oil flow up to 5X, thereby reducing engine friction" - thats utter garbage. Maybe "flow vs pressure drop" improves? So if they saying that 85 l/min with 24psi loss requires 550W to pump vs 4.5psi needing 150W then I'd agree with that.

"99% Efficiency at removing oil contaminants at 25 microns
(captures contaminants down to 5 microns)" - this will be referring to the secondary stage. Such efficiency is perfectly achievable by a paper/synthetic bypass filter but you couldn't expect any filter to remove dirt from the full 85l/min. I'd want to see a full test curve to compare to normal filters.

"Increases contaminant storage capacity by 5X, doesn’t capture oil" - capture oil?? what would it doo, inflate like a tick???

(edited) Winders - That "Mann-Filter W 719/22" is (probably) the same as Mahle OC75 which is Porsche OE - they both refer to the 944 Turbo which is where the M64.50 turbo borrowed it from. It's a good filter the bypass is set to 2.5Bar so with a GT3 pump you wont lift to relief valve unless you do an idiot start-rev. I have tested this combo and the pressure loss is lower than OC229.

dannobee - I kind of agree but the reg valve is a long way down from that 2nd tapping. If you measure the dP on the filter right by the screw on flange it is lower. There are a couple of nasty elbows in bracket which hurt the dP. JoeMag's numbers are accurate but about 20% worse than the dP at the flange.

JoeMag - what oil grade and temperature was that at?

Hi Bobley -- Welcome to the forum and thanks for the 'masters class' info on oil filters...

The data I presented was about half way through a race with oil temp 190F (temperature measured at point 1 in my 08Aug post) and oil was bradpenn 20w/50.

That makes sense. I'm a bit here nor there on the oil grade but I found that 10W40 gives a better balance of pressure side to side as getting thicker oils right into the LH head is hard work. You dont see much difference in filter pressure drop whether you use 40, 50 or 60 weight grades because the thinner oils flow more as evidenced my a slight overall drop in pump out pressure.

But I'll never argue with Brad Penn 20W50 :-)

Meanwhile, if you are running about 25% bigger pump then the stock OC229 isn't a good choice. OC75 aka Mann W719/22 works well. Denser (old school) paper, larger area with higher filtration efficiency and it gives a better margin away from relief lift pressure too (filter dP is lower while lower tolerance of bypass lift is higher).

Porsche have plenty of OE spec Austrian made 944 107 201 03 ( Mahle OC75) filters btw.

A response to Bobley from Chris Hubbard: I understand 3 party conversations are confusing but here's what I have so far.

More to come.

Sorry for the scepticism Henry. 25 years of lube design and optimisation for some very prestigious projects and Hubb hasn't popped up on the radar... but I have a production project I'd like to talk to them about... would they be up for a discussion. It's low volume but pretty special

No worries. Everyone gets to evaluate the information and make their own conclusion. I will tell you, Porsche guys seems incredibly resistant to change.
"Porsche knows best".
I'm talking to Chris tomorrow, and if you send me an email, I'll forward it to him.
If he has an interest in your project, he'll get a hold of you. Best I can do.

Trying to get my head around all of this has me dizzy, as obviously I have not a good grip of the physics/chemistry of flow, pressure, temp, pressure vs scavange and diff filter configurations all at different dynamics. So my post is query vs informative. My oil filter setup is half guess work and half info from a good friend who has campaigned Porsches for years successfully. I have a 965 filter in the place of the deleted oil cooler. I run a NAPA 1553 filter in the conventional position. That filter is a straight flow, no by pass. My friends theory is he wants all of his oil filtered. If the element is so contaminated you go to bypass, you are done anyway. I suppose there is an issue if the filter collapses, the odds of that I don't know. I am considering installing a SYSTEM 1 servicable filter in the conventional spot, scavenge I think. I happen to have one on the shelf. Any comments on the SYSTEM 1 filter. I change oil and filters after every event. I had an oiling issue several years ago costing me several motors, unrelated to the filters. sorted that issue and 20 plus events since and counting, no motor issues with my current oil filter setup. Love this forum, Bob

A few people have asked about a replacement cartridge to reduce down time.
We're working on it.