2.2 Rebuild real cost

4nk8k9 · 07-04-2003, 10:20 AM

Hi all.

I have been looking seriously at some old 911T's with 2.2 engines. Any one I have seen, even in good condition, will definitely need a rebuild sooner or later. Anyway, I know this may be a difficult question to answer without a lot more details, but it would help me to have a range. So... how much would it cost to rebuilt a 2.2 for parts alone, assuming pistons and cylinders are ok? Maybe a probable min and max price.

rw7810 · rw7810's Garage

I'm in the slow process of doing my 2.2 right now. Will let you know how it goes. You can definitely shop around for good prices.

HarryD · 07-04-2003, 11:13 PM

Try out Wayne's rebuild wizard to get an idea of parts costs.

Jim Sims · 07-05-2003, 06:39 AM

To do something resembling a proper rebuild and reusing the P&C's and many other parts, the "rock bottom" minimum is likely $2500 for parts and supplies (bearings, rings, fasteners, gaskets and seals, valve drive train parts, chain tensioner upgrade kit, etc.) and $1500 for machining and other outside services: head work, cam grinding, crank polishing, rod rebuilding, magnafluxing, flywheel surfacing, etc. I wouldn't consider this rebuild unless there was a minimum of $5000 available. It will be very easy to have it cost more. Jim

Scott Clarke · Scott Clarke's Garage

Unfortuately, it is not safe to assume that the pistons will be reusable. My E pistons were just out of spec at 73,000 miles, and the rest of the motor was in pretty good shape.

dtw · 07-05-2003, 08:18 PM

I get nervous about the quality of advice from anyone who tries to put a number to your question, not to discredit your question which is a valid one. Jim's answer is good- a $5k minimum budget should cover all the absolute basics, not counting labor, nor paying CE machinining prices which are 50% higher or double the rates of other reputable shops.

There are just too many variables here- $2,500 would cover minimum machining and parts without replacing many essential "while you're here" items like the clutch, plug wires, chain sprockets (int. shaft AND cam ends), fresh hardware, pressure-fed tensioners, and the like. $5k would get you into these items, and is what I'm starting to consider a true minimum budget for an engine. Unfortunately we're still not into MFI pump rebuilds or carb conversions, new pistons/cylinders, new cams, head modifications, replacement of rusty heat exchangers for SSIs, or any other high dollar wear/replacements.

The rule of thumb that's been working great for me is to take my best good-faith estimate, then double it.

psarmany · 07-05-2003, 08:55 PM

Soon, hopefully, I will be facing the 2.2E rebuild. The t-bodies are already done ($1100) pump is still at Pacific F.I. ($970) and long block is cleaned and ready to come apart. Been trying to decide which machine shop to use and I've called all of BA's top three. Dave why are CE's prices so much higher? Is their work better, more complete? What are the chances that 30 year old p/c's with 90-100K can be reused? I'd like to use the turbo tensioners w/ safety collars but should I consider the pressure fed tesioners? Any thoughts/suggestions? Pete

HarryD · 07-05-2003, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psarmany
Soon, hopefully, I will be facing the 2.2E rebuild. The t-bodies are already done ($1100) pump is still at Pacific F.I. ($970) and long block is cleaned and ready to come apart. Been trying to decide which machine shop to use and I've called all of BA's top three. Dave why are CE's prices so much higher? Is their work better, more complete? What are the chances that 30 year old p/c's with 90-100K can be reused? I'd like to use the turbo tensioners w/ safety collars but should I consider the pressure fed tesioners? Any thoughts/suggestions? Pete

Hi,

Can't help you on the P&C issue other than tobudget to change them. When you tear down, measure the ring lands and inspect the barrels to decide if you can keep 'em. That way the only surprise is a good one.

The cost of the Carrerra Tensioner kit is about the same as two non-carrera tensioners. Why pay the same for greater risk?

For a machine shop, ask at your local p-car shops who they use. These guys are staking their reputation on the work of these machine shops so they should know who is ok.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Walt at CE is the best, but the others are very good too. You need to get a copy of this: www.101projects.com Engine Rebuild book to accurately estimate your costs.

I tell people plan on a minimum of $8K to rebuild any 1965-89 engine, or $6K if you are planning on assembling it yourself...

-Wayne

4nk8k9 · 07-07-2003, 06:27 AM

I used the "Wizard" and came up with at least $6K to do it myself properly (which is in line with what I am reading in your replies). That puts me near $10K Canadian with shipping, taxes etc. All the cars I have looked at so far are about $10K. I guess it might be better to look at cars with a documented recent rebuild... if I can find one. It seems unwise to spend as much on an engine rebuild as the car is worth.

724doorE · 07-11-2003, 07:19 AM

Yes, but there is a piece of mind that comes with tightening those polts yourself......You will be sure of what was done, and if there are any little hicups, your the guy who did it. If you buy a car with a Documented rebuild and few miles since, well those are tough to find for 10K if the car is nice too.

TimT · 07-11-2003, 02:14 PM

Quote:

I tell people plan on a minimum of $8K to rebuild any 1965-89 engine, or $6K if you are planning on assembling it yourself...

I built my 2.2 into a race spec engine. More machining was necessary than a stock rebuild, and I replaced the crank with an S crank. I also installed a 930 oilpump, ported the heads and got new cams. The total cost was a tad over $8000.

Figure between Waynes range and the skies the limit....depending on if you want a stock rebuild or want to reliably wring every potential hp you can out of the engine.

psarmany · 07-11-2003, 08:19 PM

Tim , Who did you use for the machine work?

TimT · 07-12-2003, 05:32 AM

I used German Precision for my machine work

UNVMe · 07-13-2003, 09:44 PM

I have a 71 911t with a 2.2 that I purchased a few months ago.
The car was sitting outside unused for 6 years before I picked it up for a little over $2K.
Needless to say many things need replacing.

I was able to get the engine to start but she spits oil something nasty...
I am binging it in to the shop to "investigate" what need to be fixed with the 2.2.

I have been told that it may just need the valves replaced and the pistons re-rung. Not overly expensive.

However, if the engine needs more than $2-3K worth of work I am thinking that spending $4-6K (as mentioned above) to have a 2.2 rebuilt to t spec is not worth the bang for the buck.
Am I way off base here?
Would a previously rebuilt 2.7 or 3.0 be money better spent @6-7K??
Or would rebuilding the 2.2 to S spec for 6-7K be the smarter move..

I am not a stickler for correctness.
Mostly interested in DE and weekend driving..
Unfortunately, I am not into the DIY engine work..

thanks,

Imageben · 07-15-2003, 07:33 PM

Read Wayne's book the money spent on a new 2.7 could give you a 2.2 that you are sure about. The 2.7 may need to rebuilt to at some point.

Halm · 07-29-2003, 04:13 AM

As a point of reference, I have talked with Otto about rebuilding my 2.2E. Assuming the MFI is good, he said $6-8k. The big variable is new E spec P&C's if I need them - and i probably do. Evidently these are becoming hard to find.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Lots of good questions here. Firstly, when rebuilding your engine, it is a good idea to include improvements and updates to it. The early piston and cylinder sets are getting harder to find these days, so a good update might be to go with the 2.7RS P&C, widen the heads a bit, and run 'S' cams. This would be a good upgrade with good street power. If you have Webers or MFI that needs to be rebuilt - simply have it done to the 2.7 'RS' spec. The costs should almost be the same, if not cheaper because the RS piston sets appear to be cheaper these days than the plain vanilla ones. As for originality - only if you car is a concours winner...

Otto does a good job of rebuilding engines - IF you can deal with his personality. Note, that is a very big IF. $6K-$8K will get you a very quality rebuild. Otto uses Bill & Dick at EMS for machine work.

Keep in mind that I am building the following engine for about $10K (my cost):

- 1977 Euro Carrera Aluminum Engine Case $1500
- 2.7 Crank & Rods $600
- 3.2 Big Bore RSR Pistons $3600
- Mod "S" cams from Elgin $700
- Turbo Heads ported and twin plugged $1200
- Twin HPX Ignition Systems $1000
- Dual Weber 40s $1000

For $4K more than a stock rebuild, I'll have about 270 HP in an aluminum block with twin ignition. Not bad for a 914...

-Wayne

UNVMe · 07-30-2003, 08:07 PM

I forgot to mention that the 71t has the Zeniths carbs..
I've read good and (mostly) bad stories about using these if I am trying to get more power out of the 2.2.. not sure about the use of these on a 2.4 or 2.7. my guess is not good.

Another grand for a pair of webers 40s is not something that will come easy after the cost of the engine....

I've picked up Bruces Performance book (at local bookstore) and I am in the process of reading that.. Waynes engine book will be next.. I would like to be able to talk to the shop with some level of understanding about what they are going to do to my baby..

ugh..

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Zeniths are good carbs, but parts to modify their use for larger engines are nearly non-existant. Pick yourself up a good, clean set of Webers.

Not to pull punches, but my book is better for figuring out what to ask your machine shop than Bruce's book. http://www.101projects.com

-Wayne