77 911S Engine - Dumpt it?

[cab83_750]

I have a 77 911S engine needing major TLC.

1. Anything special about this engine that warrant noticing? I have Wayne's engine rebuilding book and did note that some owners 'think' it pulls better than my SC.
2. Does the 'S' badge (vs., say, a 'T' ala 911T) mean creature comfort of the car, or engine differences?
3. As this car is CIS, should how switch to carb?
4. Wayne's top engine pick recommended a different cam. Will this kill my smog?

I am very serious about learning and rebuilding this engine, if it warrants it, and I would also appreciate any other input not in Wayne's book.

[Tim Walsh]

I have no idea about smog but the S in 911S stands for sport. It means you have a little peakier motor, more HP and more torque than a normal 911 of that year.

[jgparker]

The '75-'77 911S had larger port (35mm) and a more aggressive cams than the normal 2.7 911CIS of that period. All CIS cams are fairly mild though. The '77-'78 2.7 also had the oil bypass mod and the larger oil pump, so it's a perfect starting point for a really hot engine. Unfortunately, you live in the land of smog tests and bad gas, so you may have to keep it CIS and low compression.

I can assure you that an S-cam, high compression, Weber carbed version of that engine would be a real screamer. Just changing to Webers would be an improvement, but I doubt you would pass smog, and it may not be legal either.

Good luck,

JP

[dd74]

I think your's might be magnesium, so it's lighter than a 3.0. In a well-tuned, smog-less version with backdated exhaust, it'll develop only 5 horsepower less than a 3.0.

Adam Chaplin on this board has a very fine example of a '76 911S with CIS. Take a look at his work.

[cab83_750]

This is fascinating!!!!! S E R I O U S LY!!!!!!!!

I initially posted this same question in the regular BBS and was advised that it is better suited in the rebuilding forum. So far, what fascinates me is that "total opposite information" of the feedbacks between the 2 forums (my opinion.).

The feedback here are almost what I suspected (and, of course, what I wanted to hear). For example, other Pelicanites suspected that the S stood for sport and are all S's for a range of years.

The car is a 77 and most likely will be rebuilt with performance in mind and disregarding smog as it is almost exempt.

I'll search for Adam's work tomorrow and start getting ideas.

Anybody has feedback on MFI setup compared to carbs?

[dd74]

Originally posted by cab83_750

Anybody has feedback on MFI setup compared to carbs?

Yeah: expensive, hard to find the parts, difficult to fix. I'd go with carbs before I'd do MFI. And I'd go with CIS before going with carbs.

[Wayne 962]

I have a set of brand new (refurbished) 1974-77 911S cams if you're interested. $450, almost the price for cores!

-Wayne

[cab83_750]

Wayne,

I'll make special note of your items. Thanks!

[HarryD]

Originally posted by dd74
Yeah: expensive, hard to find the parts, difficult to fix. I'd go with carbs before I'd do MFI. And I'd go with CIS before going with carbs.

but nothing sounds like a MFI car...

[Tim Walsh]

Originally posted by HarryD
but nothing sounds like a MFI car...

I'll second that.. especially with a sport muffler

[J P Stein]

Muffler? What muffler?

Youz' 911 guys need to get snuggled up a little closer to your motors. When my right ear is 18 inches away from a set of Webers, I don't hear no stinking exhaust.

The 2.7L is a good engine. My total bill for machining (case savers, line hone, crank work, deck & square) was under 500 bucks. If a mag case won't clean up with a line hone, pitch it and get another. A good machinist can give you the bad or good news before you spend the money. A 76 or later case already has the oil bypass mod/larger pressure side included. Just make sure to get the latest & greatest spring set up for the pressure relief/bypass system.

[dd74]

$450 for S cams =

I agree with the others: the 2.7 is a great engine when sorted out. It's just that sometimes it requires a lot of "sorting."

[J P Stein]

Izat' "CIS S", 74-77 or "real S". It does make a difference, eh?

With some shopping around I found a pair of Solex cams, one NIB (amazing) and the other "freshened" by Web for $300.

[MikeB]

JP

Who's doing the machine work for $500? That seems very reasonable.

[cab83_750]

It is definitely CIS, but the motor sticker says 911S

[fintstone]

The guys on the engine board were.right...nothing really special about a '77 S engine (all S models after '73 had CIS). In '77, the S was the same engine as in non-S cars...CIS, 8.5:1 compression, 165 hp @ 5800 rpm and 176 lb torque @ 4000 rpm. It was the only 2.7 engine available in the US in '77. Of course, as posted, you can make it a lot faster than it is now with cash (parts/labor) the same as a 3.0, 3.2 etc with pretty much the same type modifications except that you are putting your money in a magnesium case engine prone to head stud failure. Obviously you can rebuild it cheaper than buying a 3.0 to rebuild, because you already have a lot of the parts. So you would basically save the cost of buying a comparable 3.0 core...but that is all. The new parts you would need are about the same price for either engine, as is the labor. In fact, the later 3.0 might well come with some of the items you would want already...carrera tensioners, turbo valve covers, upgraded oil pump, etc. and actually save you on parts. Sure, you could add carbs and SSIs, to get up to 3.0 hp numbers, but the same things added to the SC would give approximately the same hp percentage increase to the SC. On the other hand...if you have a car that came with a 2.7, you may want to keep it that way for show, a particular racing class, or just general principles.

[J P Stein]

Originally posted by MikeB
JP

Who's doing the machine work for $500? That seems very reasonable.

Dan Hall's in Portland, OR.
It was done about 2 years ago. The engine is alive & well

The 3.0 L is a better motor....stronger case and there is no replacement for displacement. I would guess that the 2.7L is cheaper to hot rod, tho.

[6771911esses]

Do you have a contact number for Dan Hall in OR. Would like to talk to him about doing my 2.7 S 911/85 case.

Mike

[tfranko29]

I thought Porsche's "S" stood for super.