964 oil pump

[69 911s]

I got "the" book the other day, really like it so far, but I don't see the 964 oil pump listed as an upgrade. Have I missed it, or is it considered the same as doing the big 930 pump, or is there a reason not to do it?
Thanks,
Holder Trumbo

[Wayne 962]

The 964 has the same pressure side as the Carrera pump, so there's really no effective upgrade in terms of oil pressure...

-Wayne

[HawgRyder]

Wayne...I have a 930 pump that I am considering using when rebuilding the 2.0S.
Am I OK on this swap or will it increase the flow and pressure too much?
I am going to do the bypass mod...and the squirters as well.
Bob

[jluetjen]

Isn't the significantly larger scavenging section considered an "upgrade" as far as getting the oil out of the sump fast and back to the tank? If my memory is correct, the whole purpose of the bypass mod was to get the excess oil out of the sump (or rather prevent it from going in the first place) and back into the pressure side. So it would seem that a 964 pump is still a step further in that direction.

I would think that anything to keep the sump dry is an improvement as it will reduce windage and increase the available oil in the tank.

According to BA (Page 64); the 964 pump delivers 65 liters of oil per minute and the scavenge pump has 1.84 times the capacity of the pressure pump. Compared to a 2.0 pump, it still has a larger pressure section so it would an effective upgrade for pre-76 cars.

Does anyone have the specs on the turbo pump?

[john walker's workshop]

you will have to relieve the main webs to make room for the turbo pump in early cases. no big deal.

[69 911s]

Also, I believe the 964 pump is Mg and has shaft bearings, which are an improvement over the 930 pump. No big deal, but every little bit helps. I just wanted to make sure there was not a significant reason not to use it on my 2.0S.

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by john walker's workshop
you will have to relieve the main webs to make room for the turbo pump in early cases. no big deal.

Ditto on the 964 pumps.

The 964 pump is similar to the Turbo pump, except that the pressure side is not as strong, which is okay for most applications. You don't need a gazillion pounds of pressure in your engine.

To answer HawgRyder's question - I did know of someone who used the Turbo pump in a 2.0 Aluminum case, and the pressure was too high. Not sure if I believe it, but he said that the oil pressure was so high, it would seep out of pores in the aluminum - at least that's what it appeared to do. My tech editor for the book made this comment, so at least the source is reliable...

The photo at the top of the page of BA's book on page 64 is *very* misleading. That is a picture of the late-style 930 turbo pump, not the Carrera pump. The Carrera pump is similar in appearance to the one on page 63 (the 1976 one), but with a screen attached.

In general, I don't recommend running Turbo pumps on normally aspirated engines. You don't need the pressure. If you want extreme scavenging, then you should go with the 964 pump. For 99% of the people out there, the standard Carrera pump is more than good.

-Wayne

[TimT]

I have a 930 oil pump in my mag cased 2.2. It took a bit of "fitting" to get it in.

The 964 and 930 (even a SC pump) flow more oil (gph) than the pump from a 2.0. I dont think they provide more pressure though. The pressure in the oil system is controlled by the relief valve. If that sticks there is a backup in the safety valve that keep filters from bursting, seals from popping etc.

If your going to rebuild a 2.0 as a street motor the SC upgrade is fine. If your building a race motor (like my 2.2 potential hand grenade) then the 964 or 930 pumps are the ticket.

Bob, if the bores the relief and safety pistons run in are in good shape the oil pump upgrade cant hurt.

[HawgRyder]

OK...thanks Tim...
I thought the relief valves would do the job of restricting the overall pressure...but was not sure.
I will relieve the block to get the pump in...and double check the action of the relief valves.
BTW...this is a mag case (69S)....so case savers and heli-coils for everyone!!
Fortunately I have access to a bridgport mill and a good lathe...so modifying the case and making the odd part is no problem.
I took a look at several places on the net and what they charge for machining...and almost had a heart attack!
I could not believe they charge what theey do for simply putting in case savers and heli-coils....I might be in the wrong business...LOL
Bob