930 loser

teatray · 01-21-2004, 05:13 AM

hi guys.

My first post!

I have owned a 930 for 11 years, but for the last five it hasn't been driven. For a couple of years, it wasn't even started. It starts now, but after a minute belches out huge clouds of black smoke.

Here's the question : how dumb am I?

No, don't answer that. The question I really want answered is:

what I can expect when I tear the engine down.
Will I find RUST?
Is the engine kaput?
Is the smoke a blown turbo seal?
Should I rebuild or buy another engine?

Any advice gratefully received.

PS: 110k miles, top end rebuild 40k ago.

RickM · RickM's Garage

I'd say give it a good going over with tune, oil change and Techron. Run it regularly and go from there. Seems you're jumping to conclusions.

Superman · 01-21-2004, 06:41 AM

I'd agree. Tune and drive. Perhaps it will take a few miles to get the oil burned out. For example a valve guide could have allowed oil to seep into the exhaust port and (right below that) the exhaust pipe. If there's a pool of oil there, then it'll take some drive time to burn it out.

beepbeep · 01-21-2004, 07:01 AM

Hehe...you are a bit dumb by not driving it ;-)

Black smoke often indicates overrich condition, i bet that CIS-flapper isn't moving so freely after so many years of sitting still. Take off filter box and "recreate" the plunger by pressing it for a while (engine off)...that will free it. Also, change oil, fuel filter and run lot's of Techron trough the engine. Drive it for a while until smoke dissapears. Of course, fhange the oil first.

Good luck!

john walker's workshop · 01-21-2004, 07:02 AM

black smoke is unburned fuel. i'm sure that will turn to huge white clouds after a bit. it's quite normal for a turbo to have oil in it after sitting a long time, as well as the oil that has seeped past the rings. it immediately gets blown into the exhaust system, where it takes a while to burn away. get ready to annoy the neighbors. the fuel system tends to suffer from sitting, but the engine should not have changed over two years if it was out of the weather.

teatray · 01-21-2004, 07:14 AM

Thanks for the advice guys..Yeah - I might be imagining things...

It isn't driveable at the moment - restoring body.

The reason it is off the road is because of the smoke generation, which happened when left for a few days, so it may indicate a sudden failure in something. When I run it now I get oil dripping from the muffler (seems like A LOT), and the smoke sure annoys the neighbors!

The reason I mentioned rust is that I had a MB engine stand for a few months & it developed rusty cam lobes. It would be good to know if this is likely, but I guess I should just look & see..

350HP930 · 01-21-2004, 03:50 PM

What year is your 930?

john walker's workshop · 01-21-2004, 04:16 PM

take the muffler off and have a radiator shop soak it in their tank and steam clean it. otherwise you will have to annoy the neighbors for an hour or so until it burns off.

teatray · 01-22-2004, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 350HP930
What year is your 930?

It an '83 Euro.

I think it is probably due for a rebuild in any case (110k miles, neglect). I want to make some HP mods, say up to 350...

Good advice re the muffler..I was concerned someone would call the fire department....

sammyg2 · 01-25-2004, 05:49 PM

Pull the turbo and inspect the piping before and after. If oil is coming from the engine it will be coating the piping that leads to the turbo. if it is a turbo seal it will coat the turbine and piping after the turbo.

If you have oil dripping from the muffler pipe you have more than just a little oil from sitting IMO. Sometimes the turbo seals can leak and then scab over (re-seal). If that's the case it wil ljust take some time to burn the oil out of the system ans previously posted.

teatray · 01-26-2004, 03:25 PM

Thanks for that guys.

Well, I tried some more detective work before dismantling anything. I ran the engine for longer than the usual minute or so when the smoke gets out of hand, and boy did it start spraying out oil - I mean a lot - say an eggcupful every 5 seconds or so, straight out of the exhaust. Never seen anything like it.

Does this indicate some definitive diagnosis?

Tinker · 04:01 PM

Tea,

I agree with Sammy and bet its the turbo seals. Mine sat in pieces for a few years, a long story. When I finally got it going, it wasn't spraying oil, but it smoked like it was on fire. I thought for sure the turbo seals were gone. But a drove it a bit more and the smoke slowly disappeared.

Other possibilities:

1. A problem with the oil scavenger system from the turbo, causing pooling.

2. You completely overfilled the oil tank and its sucking it through the intake, but then it would really run bad.

Tinker

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Read this first:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/mult_Engine_Rebuild/mult_engine_rebuild-1.htm

-Wayne

teatray · 01-28-2004, 03:51 PM

Wayne - ordered both books today. Thanks.

Tinker - check oil level - fine - my money's on the turbo seals!

350HP930 · 01-28-2004, 04:13 PM

Hey Wayne, I just ordered your engine rebuild book last week. The tracker says it should be here friday.

As long as it gives me even one hot tip it I will concider it worth the cost and sing its praises to the uninitiated.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by 350HP930
Hey Wayne, I just ordered your engine rebuild book last week. The tracker says it should be here friday.

As long as it gives me even one hot tip it I will concider it worth the cost and sing its praises to the uninitiated.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised...

-Wayne

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by teatray
[B]I have owned a 930 for 11 years, but for the last five it hasn't been driven. For a couple of years, it wasn't even started. It starts now, but after a minute belches out huge clouds of black smoke.

Run this thing for a few hundred miles - these older 911 engines have a tendency to "reinvent themselves" after having been sitting for quite some time...

-Wayne